I lost... now what?

animalstyle

animalstyle

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I just found out that the business deal that accounts for 90% of my income on my first authority project is ending next month. Its a huge hit, but I don't have anyone to blame but myself.

The Major Flaw
  • I built a site in an industry that has one service provider, hoping to monetize the site by sending traffic to that provider.
    • Why would you pay out commissions to a website about your industry if you have a monopoly on your industry?
What Next?

The site is well aged and it sees a large amount of high value traffic in the industry. For so long I laser focused and pushed super hard on the most obvious monetization - sending traffic to the service provider. Against all odds, I managed to do that and be compensated.

Now that this is going away, I realize what I have actually had all along is just large amount of attention from a specific demographic group with a specific interest.

It's obviously not ideal, but I feel like reverse engineering the visitor and monetizing the site by providing them other options (through testing) is the next best move. That does two things:
  1. Brings in the most value out of the project.
  2. Sends customers away from the service provider, thus creating some leverage and worth for my traffic.
I feel like going to aggressive with this could break the trust of the brand. Can anyone give any advice on how to proceed?

---------------------

Regardless of how obvious it may be now, I still worked hard on this project for a long time. A hit like this hurts, but the first thing I do is look at the positives. Here's a list I came up with:
  • I built a bankroll.
  • Learned about organic traffic generation, social, lead gen, sales and creating a business.
  • Built a contact with the company and the door to work together in the future could open again.
  • Every time I fail, I am left with the feeling of the fire still burning inside me. It keeps reinforcing the fact that I am going to keep going until win.
Sharing this with you all so I can get all this out of my head and hopefully help someone out. I am a student of this game, so being honest and documenting my failure is one of the best ways I can help others. If it helps one person make one better decision, Ill be completely happy.
 
It sounds that it is the perfect time for you to start new project. You gained some skills and experience and I am sure that you definitely got some decent ideas through the process.

ROUND 2 - FIGHT !
 
Logically, as I ignore the niche and the service you send traffic, is possible that I say some nonsense, but what about you becoming the service provider?
 
@Vert its a good suggestion and an idea I've heard before but unfortunately it just isn't an option. The barrier to entry in this one is millions.
 
If the barrier of entry is millions and someone was willing to pay for it (profitable). Are you sure there is no emerging provider who would love to receive traffic without an established online presence?
 
@Sin, I've got my finger on the pulse here and unfortunately no, there isn't anyone else right now.
 
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It seems like you already have half of the puzzle solved and in your possession along with the new knowledge you gained. That's definitely worth something.

I know you said there's no one else but have you approached investors, put a business play together and shop it around? If it's this strong then somebody will invest. You just have to be patient and ruthless on approaching investors to get what you want.

Be sure to include yourself as a partner in the new deal.

In the meantime, use your bankroll and new skills to develop something else to keep you going.

I know it's tough but I know a couple really good sales people ina very high dollar (multi million dollar transactions) and they always tell me it takes the same amount of effort and time to make a 4 figure sale as it does a 7 figure sale. I know your end goal is not to sell but take that mentality of using your time to go after the big deal. One that will be completely sustainable for you and where you have control.

Good luck.
 
I am puzzled how this industry can have only one service provider. Are you saying because it's constrained by geography?

I'd install Adsense on there and just see what advertisers pop-up. Might give you some alternative ideas.
 
Another option is to sell it to that service provider and move on. You could hold it and hedge your bet for the future in 5 or 10 years but who even knows what the internet will look like by then. Or you can cash out and throw that at the next project with an appropriate number of advertisers and accelerate yourself along the path to dominating something else. It sounds like you dominated, just the wrong thing. But what you built likely has value to the single provider (but not to you). Imagine liquidating something that's making you zero cash. What kind of multiple is that? Any amount is an infinity multiple.
 
Being a 2nd service provider just isn't an option. Let me see how much info I can give without giving away too much...

The service provider is the only one in my main market in the niche. The service requires a physical location and there are large investment costs and patents involved that have kept anyone from becoming a second option. I've been watching this very closely, watched others fail, and it's not something I want to or pursue. The market is 3-5 years from seeing any substantial competition sparking up, but I think it's coming. Even if I went after being a second service provider, I would fail because I don't want it.

I think selling would be a mistake. I know there's massive potential to the site, I just think I built too early and narrow.

The site is branded to the niche, and the idea I've been rolling around in my head is to expand out into the vertical. I'm thinking I can re-brand to a vertical friendly name and start tackling related niches using the authority I've built. I'd loose some of the juice and relevancy to the niche, but I think I'd be able to accelerate pretty quickly into the nearby niches and start gathering some vertical coverage. Re-branding would allow me to take a good portion of my sites age and authority to the new brand, right?

This would allow me to go after the vertical and give visitors options between the niches. It would make it more attractive for the service provider and others in similar niches since they don't have competition within the niche, but they do in the vertical. I'd gather traffic from niche related terms and show them the possibilities in the vertical.

As an example: Lets say the brand I've built is all about pizza and there is only one major pizza shop provider on the map. I can't market to them because all my traffic is just pizza related. My brand has to have 100% coverage on pizza places because that's a pillar to its authority. So I re-brand to a broader name and go after the restaurant game. Now I don't just have pizza eaters, but I have hungry people in general. I can be selective as to which pizza and other restaurants I show and could use that as leverage for building business deals. I'd be able to grab the pizza deals and the Chinese, American etc since I'm now a vertical sized restaurant brand, not just a pizza niche brand.

I realize this is big thinking and I know it's daunting, but I don't have much to loose. I've been saving everything but expenses that I've made with the project and have a decent bankroll traffic now and could start scaling immediately. I know it will be a ton of work to build out into a vertical sized brand, but I've got a solid groundwork laid in age and experience to move from. It's the first idea I've been truly excited about since I first started the project and I can already see the plan to work it backwards and just attack.

What do you guys think?
 
That's a great idea, if you've thought it through carefully. I'd make sure there was more monetization methods that selling leads. I'd sell products related to these niches if I could, even better if you don't have to stock anything (in my mind for scalings sake at first). I'd make sure there are also advertisers so my casual posts like a blog can have CPC ads in them.
 
Thanks @Ryuzaki, huge points. I've got a ton of market research to do.

How much ground in rankings do you think I'd loose switching from a niche to a vertical brand?
 
animalstyle said:
How much ground in rankings do you think I'd loose switching from a niche to a vertical brand?
Click to expand...

Probably none if you set up your 301's correctly, add the new domain in Webmaster Tools in the same account, and on the old domain in there tell it you've had a change of address to the new domain.
 
just make sure everything is redeirected to the same pages name an content and you won't lose anything. That's what's we were always doing when I was working with big sites like via rail at my old job
 
animalstyle said:
    • Why would you pay out commissions to a website about your industry if you have a monopoly on your industry?
Click to expand...

Because it still nets you more total sales still? Even with a true monopoly (which I really doubt this company has) the amount of sales you get still very much has to do with marketing and advertising.

I'd personally wait a little bit before doing anything to drastic beyond just changing it so you don't send that service provider any business. There is a good chance this business is going to discover that sales do decrease if you stop pushing their business and substantially more then predicted as well.

I can speak from multiple experiences from seeing businesses try to increase margin by cutting out various marketing partners while assuming sales won't drop as much. It rarely works out that way.
 
I've been digging in and doing a bunch of market research around the whole vertical. The results have been encouraging, and I am seriously considering a re-brand to something that I can grow out into a vertical sized site. I'm just not clear on the path to get there.

I've been thinking a lot about what @miketpowell said in regards to the business trying to cut marketing partners to increase margins. I believe thats exactly what is/will go on here based on the information I have. My site's numbers are growing, I know I'm driving value, and I the volume has to be enough for them to notice once its gone.

My biggest worry is the quality of staff they've had handling my relationship. I wouldn't be surprised if they never spoke to me again out of ego or stupidity. The main point of contact has been my biggest hater telling me I'd never make much money before we started the deal (wrong :evil:), telling me when they gave notice the deal is ending that 'sorry its a bad day for you' and if we start another deal 'it will be at a much lower rate' (also wrong, just yet to be realized - they had a bad day because my rates just went up if they want to work together again).

I don't plan to do anything drastic with the current site. I'll let it run out the next month, pull the deal and start testing other methods to replace adsense. This will give me a chance to do some research and get data for the larger site project.

I plan to continue the in-depth market research on the vertical until I know it in my core and identify a brand/grab a new URL. At that point I can start doing the architecture and some data work to fill out the new site. I want to use the juice that the niche site has to boost the new brand and grow it quickly, I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot along the way. The niche site will need to roll into the vertical site at some point, but when?

In the time between launching the new vertical site before rolling the niche site into it, would I see much of a boost adding a sitewide link from my niche -> vertical styled as 'Part of the Vertical Site Name Brand Network"? Would you build a bit of an off-site base on the vertical site before adding that link?
 
animalstyle said:
they had a bad day because my rates just went up if they want to work together again
Click to expand...

:evil: LOL :evil:

animalstyle said:
before rolling the niche site into it
Click to expand...

Why "before" at all? Why not build the new site on a staging server and move all the content over before launch, and launch with all of it? All you need to do is map the 301's and go to Webmaster Tools and tell Google that the old domain has a new home (in the new domain in the same Webmaster Tools account). The migration will happen fast and you'll maintain all of your juice and rankings.

This "out in the open" legit migration is fine in Google's eyes. And if you tell them what you're doing, they'll do their part fast and not dampen any juice, etc.

I like this idea though. Say I built a site about drones when they first came out and then they never popped off huge. I'd keep all that drone content on the new domain in a drone category, and then I'd start adding remote control race car content. Then I'd start remote control speed boats. So now I have land, water, and air. Then I'd move into remote control robots, etc. Remote control everything!

I'm imagining your scenario is like that. You probably have an entire world of stuff you can cover. MMA alone not working? I'll do boxing and wrestling too. Swimming not enough? I'll do canoes, kneeboarding, and all that. Rollerblading sucking? I can do BMX and skateboarding and motocross too.

But yeah, you can 301 to an entirely new brand if the current domain name doesn't work. That didn't really occur to me before but it's obvious now. I mean, I absorb sites into my main site like that. It works GREAT.
 
I see what you're saying. Since in effect I am re-branding and moving the whole site, a change of address makes the most sense. If I were to start the new site, let it run for a few months, and then 301 the old to the new, it doesn't really work the same way. A complete site move using that change of address is going to be stronger than just an absorb with 301's, right?

Maybe I'm wrong though: When you absorb a site into your project, do you tell google that the old site address has changed to your new address?

Ryuzaki said:
I like this idea though. Say I built a site about drones when they first came out and then they never popped off huge. I'd keep all that drone content on the new domain in a drone category, and then I'd start adding remote control race car content. Then I'd start remote control speed boats. So now I have land, water, and air. Then I'd move into remote control robots, etc. Remote control everything!
Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm a big fan what you're doing building one large project and stemming off that. It just fits with my mentality. I get overwhelmed by the fast moving networks of affiliate sites that the youngest generation seems to excel at. I like the large brand approach.
 
animalstyle said:
When you absorb a site into your project, do you tell google that the old site address has changed to your new address?
Click to expand...

Yes, I do it 100% clean and clear in the eyes of our overlords. I add the sites to the same webmaster account, tell them the address has changed, create 301's in the htaccess which I host on the same server as the main site, confirm with Google that the 301's are good, and within a day or 2 max I've absorbed the rankings.
 
If this site truly is "dying" like you claim, then perhaps you would benefit from sharing the site name/niche. At the very least you would get some better advice. I mean what do you have to lose at this point?

I truly doubt that there is a complete monopoly or not another way to structure your deal to keep that 90% you think you will lose.
 
First I have no clue about the SEO on changing domains and 301ing so any advice on that subject is best left to others.

However what you are describing with the contact at this company, I've got a ton of experience with that. You've got an envious hater on your hands pretty much that is trying to fuck with your income.

In the future to avoid this kinds of problems you can frame yourself as an employee at another company, not some guy doing his own thing. This employee decided long ago that they don't like you (because they are envious of your position and intelligence likely) and has it out for you. If you approached the project from the beginning as you are an employee of another company you likely could have avoided this. I spent years communicating with people as an "employee" of my company even when I was a 1 man operation. This made working with employees at companies I do business with much much easier. They didn't see me as some weird outsider but just a fellow employee like them.

In your specific situation I'm going to guess what is going on. This contact you've got is pushing for you to be cut off and has promised that the company will not be down a single sale after cutting you. He's told his bosses you provide no value and every sale they get they would have gotten anyways. His claim is probably that every penny they pay you is in reality getting them nothing.

However he's not the only one looking at the numbers. After they cut you off sales will fall and others at the company are going to notice. So that's why I say in the future this company is likely to come back and start up the deal again.
 
Meatplow said:
If this site truly is "dying" like you claim, then perhaps you would benefit from sharing the site name/niche. At the very least you would get some better advice. I mean what do you have to lose at this point?

I truly doubt that there is a complete monopoly or not another way to structure your deal to keep that 90% you think you will lose.
Click to expand...

To be clear - the site isn't dying, its the single monetization deal that is. The site is actually quite healthy and a foundation that I intend to continue with.

I think you're correct on your second point. I've found some other interesting monetization options in my research that I'll be giving a try once the deal is over.

@miketpowell, thank you a ton for your whole reply, I'll definitely go the 'employee' route from here on out.

miketpowell said:
In your specific situation I'm going to guess what is going on. This contact you've got is pushing for you to be cut off and has promised that the company will not be down a single sale after cutting you. He's told his bosses you provide no value and every sale they get they would have gotten anyways. His claim is probably that every penny they pay you is in reality getting them nothing.
Click to expand...

You're right on from the info I have. The whole time the contact has been the one questioning the agreement. On the termination phone call they mentioned the length of our agreement and basically cut the length in half... and later said it again but added "since things really started moving" or something. Really weird stuff since I know exactly when we started, and things were moving from day one.

This is some weird drama, not what I am used to. Caught me off guard but really helps to know its 'normal'.
 
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