I'm thinking about working towards a sale, but...

[bernard]

Is it a good rational move or is it an excuse because I can't get to the next level?

I want to sell it for 3x earnings or settle for like 100K.

Then I'd move onwards to my next site and rinse and repeat, invest some of the money after a while in a real estate rental property.

Is it a good move though or am I considering this, because I just don't seem to be able to really hit the high points like some of my competitors. I know my main competitors make a lot more than me, they also spend a lot more on links but even so.

Maybe being realistic, with my level of intelligence, experience, skill and work ability (diminished), this kind of site is basically the highest I can hope for and someone with "ceiling raising" ability can buy it for the next level?

I feel like I can churn out, "high floor" sites, but difficult to get reach the high ceiling. Maybe this is a revelation to accept?

 

[Ryuzaki]

It's not a cop out. It depends on what your goals are. There's nothing wrong with snowballing earnings from one liquidation event into the growth of another project and doing the same, over and over.

I know someone who does this as their business model. They start batches of about 5 sites, see what shakes out as the winner of the batch, sell the other 4 and put the money in on the 5th winner. Then they end up selling that for a huge chunk and start again with another batch. It's the 5 site conveyer belt that funnels into one winner that gets liquidated. They're a millionaire now and that includes splitting the money with a partner.

Cashing out means dropping the risk, which can be good. Nothing wrong with getting the next three year's worth of profit right now and investing it. Especially if you can't get it to the next level. It's not a failure on your part, but perhaps a failure of cash flow (which a sale solves) and a failure of infrastructure.

Sometimes you can't build the right infrastructure (content production, link acquisition) without some cash injection from a sale.

It sounds like at some level you're tying your self-worth up with "breaking through to the next level." Nobody knows or cares or judges you based on that. Hell, we on this forum probably know more about what you do than your own family and friends, and we don't measure your value by breaking out of a plateau. Your friends and family will gain more respect for you if they see you cash a fat six figure check though. But as far as understanding the struggles of your business, they don't know or care, probably don't want to know, you know?

Maybe one site sale can spawn off three more sites and leave you a large chunk of money to cushion your lifestyle while your cash flow drops down to very little. Then you'll be back asking if you should sell all three for a seven figure valuation.

Maybe a few rounds of that will excel you past the "high floor sites" level and into the "high ceiling" level.

Or maybe you should be smarter and grind harder. I doubt that's the case. You might have hit a ceiling for where you're at in your own timeline.

The real question might be... should you keep it for cash flow and risk losing it to some Google update, or should you cash out and strategically maneuver into the next ventures with the war chest you end up with?

 

[tyealia]

Ryuzaki with the value bomb.

For this particular situation I would do a revenue analysis of what you hope to invest and gain in the site, how many links and time invested can lead to profit increases and roughly do a low medium high analysis of this. Then take a look at how long it took you to create this medium ceiling site in the first place.

If you can make another of these sites that can potentially sell for 100,000 in 6 months...with x investment however it would take you 6 month and 4x investment to add an extra 100,000 to the multiple of your current site, you have your answer right there.

Just keep the risk of failure in mind aswell since as Ryu mentioned not every site is a winner. But then again holding on to this site has its own risk since a algo update can whipe it out.

 

[andreint]

That's the game.

You take the site as far as you're able to and then remove all the risk by selling it to someone who (thinks) can take it to the next level. Take that cash and reinvest it into another site that you can instantly upgrade/has a lot of quick wins, rinse and repeat.

You'll end up building a nice war chest and you won't even look at those $100k sites in a couple of years.

A shameless plug - if you're looking to sell the site drop me a line. I'm working on creating a completely custom platform that going to cause a lot of disruption in the industry.

 

[Noisegen]

Going through the sales process is valuable in and of itself. It may change how you build sites, and how you maximize your time and effort.

While we build a site, we are constantly working at that monthly earnings number. It can feel like that number is the actual value of our work. It comes in a format similar to a paycheck from a regular job, and it’s easy to compare that number to whatever else we might be doing with our time.

Sale value is always out there, but if you haven’t done a sale, it can seem unreal.

Once you go through the process of selling, you see what actual buyers are looking for, and talk to real buyers about what they want. You get a return that is separate from, but not disconnected from, that monthly earnings figure we all obsess about.

This process can really help you build more sale-able sites. You can orient your work more toward maximizing the total value of your effort over time, rather than just your monthly income from site X.

Maximizing the timing of this sale is a different topic, but I think that going through the selling process is eye-opening, and quite valuable in the long term.

And as others have said, there are tons of niches out there ready for new sites. They’re much easier to build with a sizable chunk of change, good contacts, and the confidence that you’ve done it before.

 

[JamaicanMoose]

It's not a cop out. It depends on what your goals are. There's nothing wrong with snowballing earnings from one liquidation event into the growth of another project and doing the same, over and over.

I know someone who does this as their business model. They start batches of about 5 sites, see what shakes out as the winner of the batch, sell the other 4 and put the money in on the 5th winner. Then they end up selling that for a huge chunk and start again with another batch. It's the 5 site conveyer belt that funnels into one winner that gets liquidated. They're a millionaire now and that includes splitting the money with a partner.

Cashing out means dropping the risk, which can be good. Nothing wrong with getting the next three year's worth of profit right now and investing it. Especially if you can't get it to the next level. It's not a failure on your part, but perhaps a failure of cash flow (which a sale solves) and a failure of infrastructure.

Sometimes you can't build the right infrastructure (content production, link acquisition) without some cash injection from a sale.

It sounds like at some level you're tying your self-worth up with "breaking through to the next level." Nobody knows or cares or judges you based on that. Hell, we on this forum probably know more about what you do than your own family and friends, and we don't measure your value by breaking out of a plateau. Your friends and family will gain more respect for you if they see you cash a fat six figure check though. But as far as understanding the struggles of your business, they don't know or care, probably don't want to know, you know?

Maybe one site sale can spawn off three more sites and leave you a large chunk of money to cushion your lifestyle while your cash flow drops down to very little. Then you'll be back asking if you should sell all three for a seven figure valuation.

Maybe a few rounds of that will excel you past the "high floor sites" level and into the "high ceiling" level.

Or maybe you should be smarter and grind harder. I doubt that's the case. You might have hit a ceiling for where you're at in your own timeline.

The real question might be... should you keep it for cash flow and risk losing it to some Google update, or should you cash out and strategically maneuver into the next ventures with the war chest you end up with?

@Ryuzaki summed it up better than I ever could.

Look man, you've got a site that you can sell for a 6 figure exit. That's fucking amazing and something you should be proud of.

I was in the exact same spot in 2017.

When I sold my first site for $100k~, I thought it may have been a mistake because my direct competitors were making much more. I took that money, put a bunch in the stock market, and spent the remaining amount on pumping 5~ of my other sites. I was able to scale one of those into a $200k+ exit, two of them into $40-60k current valuations, and well, the other two are shit.

SEO is volatile as fuck. Take the money while you can and diversify it into 5 different projects. The odds of an algorithm change hitting all 5 is much lower than the odds of your current site getting dinged.

Now that I'm almost 3 years removed from the original $100k~ exit, I don't regret it one bit. The only thing I regret is passing on a $120k offer for one of my other sites because I thought it had more potential. That was also in early 2017. It then got hit by an Amazon fee change and Google update. It's forever stuck on page 2. Current valuation is like $25k~.

Take the money.

 

[bernard]

I talked with my affiliate rep today about my plans to sell the site. My affiliate rep is also involved in most parts of the affiliate biz in my country and one of the most knowledgeable guys around.

Our talk turned into an hour long discussion about how to maximize my site for a potential sale down the road.

We both agreed that now was not the best timing and that the site had more potential.

He suggested I do the following:

1. Get more traffic sources than SEO

We agreed here on trying to master Google Ads and other PPC first.

2. Expand to more international markets

Expand to scandinavian countries + UK + Germany.

3. Fix whatever caused the algo hit in November

Well, I obviously agree with that.

So that's the plan, that I'm going to work at.

Learning PPC

First, I am going to figure out how to run some profitable Google Ads campaigns. It has to be possible. I have some pages that have like $4-$5 value pr. organic visitor over the last 3 months and those pages have some very basic keyword variations according to Search Console. I will begin with those.

I figure that I probably need to start with noob stuff from Google and the like and not try to skip ahead.

Expanding internationally

Now this interests me a great deal. I am not a big fan of using .com domains for local European markets, but when you're doing "white hat", it doesn't make sense to launch a bunch of local domains. Need that domain authority.

This does present some questions. What domain? Should it be new or used? Expired or existing business?

In any case, that's 6 months or so in the future, only after I figure out PPC.

 

[JamaicanMoose]

I talked with my affiliate rep today about my plans to sell the site. My affiliate rep is also involved in most parts of the affiliate biz in my country and one of the most knowledgeable guys around.

Our talk turned into an hour long discussion about how to maximize my site for a potential sale down the road.

We both agreed that now was not the best timing and that the site had more potential.

He suggested I do the following:

1. Get more traffic sources than SEO

We agreed here on trying to master Google Ads and other PPC first.

2. Expand to more international markets

Expand to scandinavian countries + UK + Germany.

3. Fix whatever caused the algo hit in November

Well, I obviously agree with that.

So that's the plan, that I'm going to work at.

Learning PPC

First, I am going to figure out how to run some profitable Google Ads campaigns. It has to be possible. I have some pages that have like $4-$5 value pr. organic visitor over the last 3 months and those pages have some very basic keyword variations according to Search Console. I will begin with those.

I figure that I probably need to start with noob stuff from Google and the like and not try to skip ahead.

Expanding internationally

Now this interests me a great deal. I am not a big fan of using .com domains for local European markets, but when you're doing "white hat", it doesn't make sense to launch a bunch of local domains. Need that domain authority.

This does present some questions. What domain? Should it be new or used? Expired or existing business?

In any case, that's 6 months or so in the future, only after I figure out PPC.

What did the rep say the potential $ upside is for doing holding the site and doing these improvements? Does the $ outweigh the potential $ lost from collapse?

 

[bernard]

What did the rep say the potential $ upside is for doing holding the site and doing these improvements? Does the $ outweigh the potential $ lost from collapse?

Good question.

He thought I could get 3x as the site was now, but thought it had potential do a lot more, half-jokingly(?) mentioning like 300K, if I worked on it, within a year or two.

 

[JamaicanMoose]

Good question.

He thought I could get 3x as the site was now, but thought it had potential do a lot more, half-jokingly(?) mentioning like 300K, if I worked on it, within a year or two.

What's stopping you selling this site then doing his suggested strategy on a new site in a different niche? Or same niche but the different countries he mentioned?

That way you have cash in hand, can't be fucked by a Google update, and you'll be able to invest in the new strategy.

 

[bernard]

What's stopping you selling this site then doing his suggested strategy on a new site in a different niche? Or same niche but the different countries he mentioned?

That way you have cash in hand, can't be fucked by a Google update, and you'll be able to invest in the new strategy.

We talked about that as well. To have that as a business strategy, build and sell, when at this point.

I do think, the main argument against, was

A) Bad idea to sell as a downtrending site

B) That there was a lot more potential

 

[DD1]

Expanding internationally

Now this interests me a great deal. I am not a big fan of using .com domains for local European markets, but when you're doing "white hat", it doesn't make sense to launch a bunch of local domains. Need that domain authority.

This does present some questions. What domain? Should it be new or used? Expired or existing business?

In any case, that's 6 months or so in the future, only after I figure out PPC.

Any reason not to set aside a couple of hours and come up with a new domain for a new brand?

If you gave the domain issue some thought right now, and threw a few articles on it already, you'd be able to age it during the six months you're figuring out the PPC part of the equation. A new domain is cheap, and likely to have all social media usernames available for branding purposes. You could also automate twitter and pinterest as here: https://www.buildersociety.com/thre...twitter-with-this-1-trick-99-auto-pilot.4487/.

As for the change in strategy and the results it entails, personally I like the idea of trading "luxury-car money" for "small-apartment money". It's a heck of a payout.

I don't know how old the site is, but for something you hold for over a year, you could possibly save money on taxes too. Also, if you tax plan the sale accordingly, you can also get partially paid in one fiscal year, and partially in the following fiscal year. Go pay your accountant a lunch or something and pick his brain to understand the basics of how you can achieve that in your jurisdiction, or whatever tax planning equivalent allows you to save money on that. There might be some minor details changing over time, but the fundamentals are likely to remain the same between now and the time of sale.

If you feel too guilty about paying less taxes, remember that you vote for the government you wish, and pay taxes for the government you have. Good luck and good work.

 

[secretagentdad]

Stop thinking about X3 cashflow and other nonsense valuation metrics.

One of the stupidest things I did when I was first getting started was giving away a few sites on those dumb listings sites.

Especially with media websites, there is almost always a strategic buyer who is in a position to immediately alter the cashflow. If you shop it to them and play your cards right you can get a little chunk of the difference between whats its worth in their strategic puzzle and yours.

You really don't need a broker to do this. Just put your thinking cap on and look at who in the industry is best positioned to capitalize on your opportunity. Also approach them one at a time, and tell the 1st few people you reach out to how many people its been shopped to. Strategic buyers are typically the high achieving people that actually appreciate details like how badly the niche has been whored out.

If you can't find one you can always marketplace it for cashflow knowing you at least tried for a strong valuation.

 

[bernard]

I've received serious interest to buy the site from what I perceive to be a serious buyer.

I actually don't feel that motivated to sell now, but it would be nice to have a war chest and some financial security for the first time in a long time.

 

[BCN]

Well, I'd rather have 100k now than 3k per month, and with 100k you can invest more aggressively in new projects. I sold a site and used it as a downpayment for a new apartment (bought a flat for 500 k eur with 30% down). I will sell a few more this year.

However, my main business isn't owning and growing websites. It's building websites (tech) and aggressive media buying from FB, Native and Google. It's something to keep in mind.

So the websites are just a side hustle, and if I want to grow them to monster scale - I'd need to do it as my main business, probably hire someone for content etc.

So when my sites hit a few k per month, it's off to the slaughterhouse with them.

 

[bernard]

Well, I'd rather have 100k now than 3k per month, and with 100k you can invest more aggressively in new projects. I sold a site and used it as a downpayment for a new apartment. I will sell a few more this year.

I want more than 100K though, at least 150K, but you're right. I've lived a very frugal and, honestly, deprived life the last 5 years. It would be very, very nice, to finally not live hand to mouth. I'd have to keep it in the business of course, because of the exorbiant taxes around here, but it would still allow to make some investments. I'd have to really study up on how best to structure this kind of thing.

However, my main business isn't owning and growing websites. It's building websites (tech) and aggressive media buying from FB, Native and Google. It's something to keep in mind.

So the websites are just a side hustle, and if I want to grow them to monster scale - I'd need to do it as my main business, probably hire someone for content etc.

So when my sites hit a few k per month, it's off to the slaughterhouse with them.

Yes, that's my concern. That I can't replicate this as easily. It took me 2 years to get to this point and I'm pretty much all about SEO and content.

 

[BCN]

Keep it in a company like an LLC or whatever it's called in your country. Prob tax would be ~20%, invest from there. Figure out what the "cutting point" between taking a salary or dividends is (here it's salary up to 24k EUR, then the rest in dividends, yearly).

But yeah, 150k is definitely nice money to have in bankroll. You can even buy sites at the 1k month stage, and if you're specializing in SEO and content, that would be a way to replicate.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Yes, that's my concern. That I can't replicate this as easily. It took me 2 years to get to this point and I'm pretty much all about SEO and content.

Been there. You can't think like that or you won't ever start a new project, let alone sell the one you have. Stagnation equals death in this industry.

This is me talking casually about "what I'd do or what you could do" so don't take it too seriously. I'm just trying to throw out ideas that might help you think about it in different ways.

If I was at your point in time, I'd be nervous about dropping my cash flow, even if it meant having a war chest. I'd also be emotionally attached to my first winning project. Don't be attached, because you'll only sell it when you're unattached and that'll only come after the project crashes.

What I'd think about doing if I was NOT going to sell is I'd go ahead and start another project (or two) and grind them out to where they prove themselves to some degree. I'd get them to at least half the cash flow of the current winner, then probably sell the winner. I'd take that cash and use it to establish more financial security in life (reducing expenses, like paying off a car or buying a house instead of renting, paying off credit), and then I'd use some of what was left to accelerate the growth of my new projects and save what's left as a security blanket.

Alternatively you could sell now, use the money to grow one, two, three, etc. more sites, which would reduce your tax burden on the sale too and propel you forward. Then save the rest for living expenses while you get your cash flow again. This is scary, though. Dropping back to zero cash flow creates a lot of stress and anxiety. I've had to do it several times (penalties, PBN deindexing, etc). At a certain point you prove to yourself that you can replicate your success and it's not as big of a deal.

Regardless, the main thing is to manage your money maturely and make sure it's there for you while your cash flow is low. You have to find the right balance between investing early to create successes but not investing into impending failures, and keeping enough to live on.

 

[bernard]

I've had some serious offers now. I turned down one, close to 6 figures.

Instead I am going all in one expanding and growing one more year. 3 more countries as well.

In addition, I am doing what @Ryuzaki suggested and trying to hustle my second site to at last 2K/month, which would make me feel better about selling.