In it for the money and heading towards failure?

[animalstyle]

This year I’ve been ditching old habits and starting some new ones with the goal of creating some mental space each day.

I’ve been taking these times to just think - reflecting on the “why”, I’ve realized something: I am doing this mostly for the money.

The idea that sparked all this was Casey Neistat’s new video. In that video he says you have to: stop at nothing to succeed.

That really resonated with me because I think it’s absolutely true. Personally I’ve found success in the things that I put my ALL into. I had passion, drive, care for others, community etc - money was the lowest priority and eventually it came.

It got me thinking a lot about where I am heading this year. It was scary to admit to myself - but I think today my priorities are the polar opposite of that: money then drive, passion, care for others, community etc.

It hasn’t always been like that - and things obviously shift day to day, but overall I’d say thats where I am.

My question to you all is - what does this all mean? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Is this a failing game to be playing? Can you re-align priorities?

I’d love to hear any thoughts from anyone who is going through this or been through it!

 

[Joe]

For me it's the opposite. Had I been focused on the money earlier, respected its importance etc, it would've lead to success. Instead of screwing around with unimportant things like I did.

I really don't see the disconnect between care for others / community and making money, unless you're being a scammer. When people buy my products, it's because those products are fixing some problem they have, or providing some improvement in their life. When people know about my products but aren't buying them, it's obviously because I'm useless to the broader community, as I'm making stuff that doesn't help anyone.

As for passion, I don't believe in it. Steve Jobs was a joke on this. He's the guy who sold the "do what you love" fluff, when in fact he got into selling computers just to make a quick buck.

For instance, suppose I'm passionate about falconry. That I can think of no way I'd rather spend my evening than hunting foxes on the steppe with a falcon. But after checking the market, no one is interested in paying for lessons in that. Am I still supposed to pursue business in that? Or just leave it as my hobby.

Or suppose I'm passionate about getting wasted at raves, or playing World of Warcraft. What are the chances of me turning that into money, versus truly productive endeavors? Deference to passion is bullshit.

If you have a passion that you have aptitude in, and you can connect to a solid market demand: great. Your odds of success have increased, and the cost of getting there decreased.

Otherwise, best to ignore all that stuff and just grind. Once you're rich, you have make way more leeway and power to improve community, or to work on more "blue sky" projects, than before.

 

[built]

How To Think About Money (To Make A Lot Of Money), with Andy Frisella - MFCEO170

https://soundcloud.com/the-mfceo-project/how-to-think-about-money-to

 

[Sisu]

I don't separate the two. To paraphrase Liam Neeson in Taken, I have a very specific set of skills that allow me to make a lot of money in the richest country in the history of the planet. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. So I work my day job and I build sites when not spending time with my wife and kids. We donate ~12% of our income to charity (primarily overseas) because the vast majority of people on the planet will never have the opportunities we have simply by living in the US.

In my greedier moments, I think of how that money would get us more quickly to retirement if we kept all of it. Then I try to remember that it helps a lot of people I'll never meet achieve really basic things like clean water or malaria nets or antibiotics while I'm here typing on my laptop in my paid off house. Frankly, the most moral thing would be to give as much as possible to help others while living on as little as possible, but I'm not there yet. But knowing that I can save or improve dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of lives a year simply by prattling on about video games or whatnot is pretty inspiring.

To sum it up, I think what's most important is that you find a sense of purpose from what you're doing. Without it, it's hard to stick with it for long.

 

[animalstyle]

To me it seems that 'passion' is always thrown around as a term for 'what you're most interested in' and I am trying to dig much deeper than that here.

To sum it up, I think what's most important is that you find a sense of purpose from what you're doing. Without it, it's hard to stick with it for long.

I think purpose is a much better term. Defined as something you have the willingness to sacrifice for, put all your energy into, beat the competition at, and eat shit to make it to the end goal.

That being said, I think I am battling trying to make money without a true-driving purpose. It seems more like I've followed this path because it aligns with my financial priorities and I have a high tolerance for sitting in front of the computer and building websites. What I don't feel enough is purpose or a desire to drive value - and that scares me.

 

[Ryuzaki]

What I don't feel enough is purpose or a desire to drive value - and that scares me.

That's probably because your own unique needs aren't being met yet. You're talking about self-actualization:

BUT! You can't just level jump to that point. You have to travel through each and every step. Most of us, despite being married and coming from good families, enter adulthood and spend nearly all of our time trying to maintain the orange level of Safety and Security.

We all have various ideas of how much cash it requires for us to feel shielded from potential ruin. And there's a lot of wealthy people who need more still. And that's why you see many of us in this industry happy to work ungodly amounts of hours per week and never socialize and be single during the prime of our lives. Because those kind of things don't matter squat if you know that one good surprise accident or incident could ruin your financial livelihood for the rest of your life.

The idea of making money and a living doing what we love and are passionate about that's part of our purpose is nonsense. It has been since man crawled out of caves, and it still is for 99.9999% of people. How many idiots move to New York and Los Angeles to chase the pop star dream only to end up serving each other coffee for 12 hours a day because they need the overtime. It's not reality yet for most of us. It will be in the future when nearly everything is automated and our access to resources is unlimited.

But for the most part from this moment and stretching into the past and projecting into the future for a couple hundred years or more... if you don't work, you don't eat. And when you're hungry, nothing else matters. Nothing else exists but the drive to connect your mouth with food.

The fact that many of us have the freedom to pivot ideas and change careers and niches or whatever puts us in a very small, fortunate, and ballsy class of people. But at the same time, the ends can justify the means. The talk that @built linked was decent. It mentioned people acting like wanting money is evil but donating 4 hours to the homeless shelter once a year makes them saints, when the money could have built 10 more homeless shelters.

Sometimes, it HAS to be about the money.

Sometimes, to get to where you want to go, you have to do things you don't want to do. Sometimes if you want peace, you have to engage in war. Sometimes if you want to effect positive change in the world, you have to drudge through shit work you don't enjoy doing. But when you break through to the other side, you're free to be creative and your spirit is capable of it, and you have the wealth needed to make the contributions you want to make.

But quite frankly, I'm not going to donate an ounce of my money or time until I'm taken care of first, because I'm not worth a damn to anyone if I'm hungry or dead. But that doesn't mean, like the other guys are pointing out, that I'm not contributing through my work. I know that I am. For me, a part of that is sharing knowledge here, and a part of it is choosing the right vertical to work in on my own sites. And some projects I do simply to sell them, and it's 100% about the money. But that money then supports the true causes of contributing even more.

My point is this... society as a whole throughout time has basically distilled every action we used to have to do down into bartering with money. Money represents the energy, efforts, and value of billions of people's various skills. It is the life blood by which our world continues to live and breathe. To focus on the money isn't evil, backwards, or selfish. To focus on the money is to focus on the everything. It's to engage with society in a way that's been agreed upon by everyone through the ages, and it's respectful because it allows you to give back in a form that can be exchanged for nearly anything. It opens up all the doors.

That's how I think about money.

But as far as working on something with passion and purpose... those are intrinsic motivators. Work is entirely an extrinsic activity with extrinsic rewards. And when you mix intrinsic motivators with extrinsic rewards, the intrinsic motivators disappear every time. That's why people who try to make money with their hobby end up quitting their hobby. It stops being fun.

So I think the idea of mixing passion, purpose, and work together is largely a myth for most everyone who ever has existed. When something becomes work, it stops being fun. I'd worry about fun once I've taken care of the money problem first. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's as noble of a priority as any other.

But of course it helps to work in an industry that you at least have some interest in. If you asked me to build a site about interior decorating I'd hate it. Ask me to do one about philosophy and I'd have a blast. But in both cases I'm doing internet marketing, which I enjoy. So anything filtered through that is going to be tolerable. But some days, I really hate internet marketing. But I'm making money, which will lead to a life I want for myself. So in the end, it's all gravy.

 

[bernard]

I can tell you with absolute certainty. Rather bored than poor.

I live it now. Poor that is.

I survive on benefits and I have all the time in the world. I have certainly had the time to read a lot about my interests in archeology, antrophology and philosophy.

Do I feel alive, vibrant and self actualized?

Nope.

I feel poor, powerless, depressed.

I mean, this is a learning experience for those of us coming from middle class backgrounds, where we never felt poverty. It sucks, big time, there's nothing good about it, do everything you can to not be poor.

Now, why would you not just then go out and work some boring drone job at an office? Because you weren't motivated by money, but by freedom and indepence. If you are not, then why be self employed in the first place.

I'd like to add, when I had money, I was also bored. I was not actually bored with work, I was bored with my life. I needed to belong and to have a purpose. This has nothing to do with work. I am not out to change the world.

So yeah, I'd do it differently, join a rugby team and build a family with kids. I learned a lot about what matters from this up and down. Or maybe my testosterone levels are declining with age and ibuprofen use.

Either way. Here's the thing. Money is security and freedom. Can you figure out how to use freedom and security? If not, then you must do some introspection on what you really want, not professionally, but from life.

 

[animalstyle]

Thank you all for the thoughts - its amazing to get feedback from so many different minds. I've been reading through it all and taking it all in.

This is the first time I've seen this chart:

That's probably because your own unique needs aren't being met yet. You're talking about self-actualization:

It's very telling for me. Life story incoming:

When I was 19, I quit the unsatisfying path I was on to pursue a sport I loved full time. Looking back, I can say I grew up through the ranks and was living in the self-actualization area.

I'd sacrificed a ton, but had grown a solid income (relative to the others in the sport), I had my health, employment, close friends, love, intimacy, confidence, achievement, acceptance etc.

While it wasn't 100% consistent, that was the majority of my time for quite a few years.

In 2016 I ended up deciding to leave the sport and work full time on IM. The sport was too hard on my body and the earning limits weren't going to take me where I dreamt. - I realize now that I sacrificed a good deal of the top of this pyramid to build a larger foundation in the orange.

I grew apart from my community and in turn lost a lot. From sense of connection to confidence to acceptance and more.

I realize now that I do have a fairly solid safety and security foundation. Even if I lost some sources of income, I have savings and I am not worried that I can earn enough to live - plus I just lowered my cost of living.

The big takeaway - and something I felt I needed that this logically explains - is that its time to focus on the upper 3 sections of the pyramid. Its time to be social, its time to connect with people, its time to be creative - and that time is just as important as grinding away - and MUCH more important than consuming more crummy content.

 

[CCarter]

"I’m not courageous, only the poor have courage, why? Because they’re hopeless. Just to get up every morning, to plow a potato field in war time or to bring kids with no prospects into the world. Yeah, to live poor, that takes courage. No, they trudge along uncomplainingly, carrying the emperor in his heavy throne and the pope in his stone cathedral. They stagger, starving, bearing the whole thundering weight of the…wealthy on their broad stupid backs. Is that courage? It must be, but it’s perverted courage. Why? Cause what they carry on their backs will cost them their lives." - Bertolt Brecht​

A lot of you think it’s virtuous to be poor. There is nothing saintly or righteous about being poor. You have been lied to your whole lives about money.

If your parents told you that rich people were evil, what hope do you have in elevating out of poverty? None, cause you don’t want to be evil. That single seed has strangled so many of you and your opportunities out of existence. Shame.

If the church told you that you should give all the clothes off your back to the needy, and the church of course, why do they turn around and shower themselves with golden crosses around their necks, and solid gold candle holders and the most expensive jewelry in their home of God?

A lot of you need to wise up. The dawn of the internet is almost over, the opportunities you have now along with the energy of youth aren’t going to be here forever. Where do you imagine yourself in 30 years? Fucking around on IM forums saying “I used to be a marketer...” talking about the good old days when you could’ve, should’ve, but didn’t. Give me a break, no one is going to care or come help you when you are shit out of luck. The only person you can rely on is yourself, and most of your are squandering it on useless thoughts wondering about virtue.

If you have access to the internet and have time to read my words you have time to make a lot of money. What you do with that money is up to you.

There is also a difference between passion to create something that will help others and passion to play video games all day like a little child. One passion can become a business the other is just procrastination.

The reality is a lot of your aren’t in “THIS” to own and run a business. Most of you just got in this to “make online money” but that’s not enough to keep you going during the dark nights. All these people talking about “Next Time... Next Christmas... Next holiday...” they aren’t serious. You know it and I know it. More procrastination.

The problem is that the people pretending, the ones that cry the loudest about “money is evil” have never really felt hardships. Hardships of not knowing where your next meal will come from, not knowing whether you can buy medicine for your sick kid versus feeding your other children so they don't starve. You don’t have to have a passion for the industry you are even in, just have a passion for wanting to better yourself and grind at it and the road will clear itself for you.

You know why I grind harder than you? You know what keeps me up at night? You know what keeps me going? Me knowing there is no one else that's going to give a fuck if I fail. No one is going to come and bail me out. No one is going to come and help me when I’m 80 years old with no money, no savings, no youthful energy, and no opportunity to generate revenue.

When I see these types of topics and some of the answers it's clear people don't have goals in their life and are just drifting where the wind takes their boat. If you don't know what you want to "be", then you need to take time off immediately and ask yourself what would be success to you as you lay on your death bed. A lot of you think you will live forever, but if you start with your death bed and work your way backwards and then create the goals of your life from there you'll start to see less fog. If you want to die an old man in your wine vineyard while playing with your grandkids - then you know what you need to do to get there, to buy that wine vineyard and get those grandkids. That is a clearer path that what some of you are on.

"You on the other hand, feel that you are immortal, and the decisions of an immortal man can be cancelled or regretted or doubted. In a world where death is the hunter, my friend, there is no time for regrets or doubts. There is only time for decisions.

When you get angry you always feel righteous. You have been complaining all your life because you don't assume responsibility for your decisions. To assume the responsibility of one's decisions means that one is ready to die for them. It doesn't matter what the decision is. Nothing could be more or less serious than anything else. In a world where death is the hunter there are no small or big decisions. There are only decisions that we make in the face of our inevitable death." - Carlos Castaneda​

 

[eliquid]

I don't find this thread surprising.

I think it's popping back up due to the disconnect from this thread:

https://www.buildersociety.com/threads/i-dont-like-internet-marketing.3275/#post-33317
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY THIS THREAD
https://www.buildersociety.com/threads/not-fulfilled-depressed-maybe-you-need-an-alignment.3235/

And now we have this thread where you're saying:

reflecting on the “why”

It got me thinking a lot about where I am heading this year. It was scary to admit to myself - but I think today my priorities are the polar opposite

To me it seems that 'passion' is always thrown around as a term for 'what you're most interested in' and I am trying to dig much deeper than that here.

That being said, I think I am battling trying to make money without a true-driving purpose. It seems more like I've followed this path because it aligns with my financial priorities and I have a high tolerance for sitting in front of the computer and building websites. What I don't feel enough is purpose or a desire to drive value - and that scares me.

My question to you all is - what does this all mean? What would you do if you were in my shoes? Is this a failing game to be playing? Can you re-align priorities?

I’d love to hear any thoughts from anyone who is going through this or been through it!

Back in my thread, you kept on and on about how it didn't work for you.

My answer is, you need to keep working on it until it does. As I said in my other thread, this is YOUR life and nothing is more important.

You're saying you need an alignment and to find your purpose above, you have the tools here to do that.

You need to work on those with the tools given to you. It might take you weeks to understand it, but you need to go through my thread again bro.

My thread goes deep into who you are, what you are able to do, your WHY, your priorities and purpose, a mission statement to guide you, and much more if you actually work on it. These are all things it seems you are looking for taking your words out of your replies above.

DO. THE. EXERCISE. and read the whole thread where it gets into mission statement, priorities, etc

Your old values were all about money. I'm pasting them below from the other thread:

Structure

1. Work for myself.
2. Work for people I respect and care for.
3. Work for people who pay well.

Money

1. Do work that has the potential to earn me a comfortable living.
2. Do work that has potential to scale to high numbers (millions, i dont care about billions) based on my effort.
3. Do work that will earn me a fortune regardless of the cost.

Interest

1. Do something I wake up ecstatic to work on each day.
2. Do something I like doing.
3. Do something I can tolerate.

I even challenged you on them in my thread and you said this was as honest as you could be at that time. That's good and acceptable.

But like everything, the real honest you is coming out right now. This is a great time to revisit and redo those core values bro. See why this exercise can take a LONG time to actually do? Like my thread says, it takes a long time to get intune with your true self.

Your true self is coming out now. Get on my thread and redo NOW.