The Mental Game of Self-Esteem Affecting Performance

[Jesse]

This may need its own thread, but I thought I'd test the waters before I spent time typing up more on it.

TL;DR: It seems like the whole mental game just boils down to your mind making you feel the way that you train it to make you feel. We're generally trained to feel like crap about ourselves, and that reflects in our drive to achieve being crap. If we train ourselves to feel better about ourselves, our natural drive will follow.

This was meant to be a question about whether I was right about this or not, thanks.

@CCarter due to the constant Dan Pena references, which was part of what brought me to this conclusion.

 

[Jesse]

Alright, my thread was moved here, so I'll just jump right into it. Ultimately, I'm asking if I'm on the right path here.

Here's a quick idea of how I arrived at this point:

1. Historically, I've felt this tremendous pit of despair when I work toward almost anything. This has created this split between what I cognitively/rationally know I want to do and how I actually feel when I do it. To give an idea of the depth of this, when I've tried to just push through it out of spite, I usually end up throwing up at some point.
2. In spite of this, I've managed to become moderately successful with my freelancing to the point of being able to take care of a small family for over a decade. However, I know this is a very small fraction of what I should be capable of without this issue.
3. I've tried a lot of things over time to overcome this, but nothing really put a dent in it (before the past 6-8 months) other than being in a financial panic over something that has come up unexpectedly. That fear-based drive always goes away once the crisis is over.
4. This past fall, I ran into a paper talking about how all of the psychology field is wrong about perfectionism and that it's never a good thing under any circumstance. The basis of the argument was that virtually all modern work on the topic is based on one original paper that was massively flawed from virtually every standpoint. Since then, all objective data we have clearly illustrates that perfectionism in virtually any form absolutely kills performance. Working to be less of a perfectionist was the first thing that helped with this feeling some.
5. This comment about being able to tell who grew up poor (I did, very much so) by @secretagentdad combined with this comment on imprinting by @CCarter in the Psychological Barriers to Success thread got me to thinking about the message I always received from my parents and extended family about working toward goals, which was all doom and gloom of the "there's no point in it" variety.
6. I've had to go over at my parents a few times in the past several weeks, which is the first time I've been there more than once in a year in a long time. Immediately after connecting the comments in #5 above, I realized that the horrible feeling I get from going over to my parents is the exact same feeling I have when working toward something.
7. Not long after, I came across a video CCarter had posted in one of these threads. I don't remember which, or I would link it, but it was from the late 80s/early 90s of Dan Pena in a QLA seminar breaking down the "five credos." All of them were basically components of the idea that I have asked about in the OP. Him repeating "garbage in, garbage out" really helped to drive the idea home.
8. I went back and looked at some source material like Napoleon Hill, and I keep seeing the exact same thing spelled out in different ways. I then saw this Andrew Tate discussion on being arrogant, and it was the exact same thing again.

From there, I had that bounce around in my head for about a week or so, and it hit me like a truck that I've been trained to do the exact opposite. I have been trained to play down my accomplishments, think I can't do things, think there is no point to pursuing my goals and all of this other crap.

Rationally, I know that I'm capable, etc. I know very deeply what it is that I want to do and that I'm completely capable of doing it. However, this emotional training, which is basically teaching me to deeply believe I can't actually do it (or that there's no point in doing it, aka poor me the universe is against me or whatever), is getting the best of me and making me feel like absolute garbage when I actually work on the stuff.

So if I've got this right, all I need to do is train myself the other way by bombarding myself with the right message (and not allowing the wrong message). That includes curating what media I take in, what I allow people to say around me and challenging any of the negative crap that happens to come up. It also includes setting much higher goals and a host of other things.

I've been working on this, and I've noticed some changes already. It's not just with my work but with my worldview in general as well.

 

[CCarter]

Self-Belief and Self-Esteem are the pillars of our individual identity.

It's created when we are extremely young from 0-7 years old, and suppose to be built by our parents.

It's there when you make that decision to talk to that new girl or start that new business. If you don't believe in yourself then you won't do either and live a LONNNG life of regret.

Everyone has fear, in everything. But Self-Belief is knowing that you can conquer any obstacle placed in front of you, therefore allowing yourself to be called a Man.

Someone that's overcome with fear, paralysis to make a move, to start a business, to get through the rough nights - they don't believe in themselves.

All of this boils down to whether you take action or not. Because "You can always come up with a reason why not to do something".

"You'll always come up with reason when you're not serious" - Dan Peña​

And you're not serious because you don't believe in yourself.

I believe in myself, that's why I talk so much shit.

You can't talk shit if you don't believe in yourself, it's impossible.

This was probably the thread and video you are talking about from Dan Peña: Just think if you ran your businesses, oh forget your businesses, if ran your life like that. As a requisite to run your life like that you'd better not be worried what your neighbors think.

The reason a lot of people don't like Dan Peña is because they are soft. They know deep down that he is stirring feelings inside of them that they aren't willing to confront. They aren't willing to confront their balls were cut off a long time ago, by their parents, society, whoever.

"I could have been somebody, I could've been a contender"​

An example of someone listening to a family member and then death - and if that doesn't send goosebumps down your spine I don't know what will.

--

Shame: Society will shame you when you try to rise above. Crabs in a bucket. They will project their own insecurities upon you. Why do you think they are trying to silence me about simply dressing better? You can see it in the subjects they bring up. You can see the uncomfortable nature of their attempts at throwing off the thread.

Then you have to ask yourself, once you see it, "Wait a minute, what about me? What am I projecting to others around me about myself?"

Think long and hard about this quote:

"You've been ashamed as just how powerful you are."​

Get rid of everyone that's not on YOUR program. If you can't get rid of them reduce exposure to them down to bare minimum.

Realistically there is no reason to be talking to people that have nothing to do with one of your short or long-term goals. None. Me being on this forum has to do with multiple goals of mine and the day the goals no longer aligns I'll fuck off into the Aether.

 

[Ryuzaki]

I'll probably repeat some things already said, but I still want to put in my 4 cents (inflation).

Garbage In, Garbage Out​

The "garbage in, garbage out" is absolutely true, which is what affirmations and monitoring your entertainment inputs is about. But sometimes it's "too late" for such small tactics to help. Either a repeated series of small-T traumas or a big-T Trauma early on solidified things. It can be reversed and I'm going through the process now, attending therapy. It does work if you work it, but takes time and money.

The reason, in my opinion, most of the "garbage in" occurs is for 3 reasons:

1) Crabs in a Bucket - People don't want you to do well. They want to box you into their view of you and they don't want you to change and grow. This is because your current relationship with them and their impression of you has reached homeostasis. it's a comfort zone to them. They know what to expect, what they can get out of you, etc.

But most importantly of all, they want to hold you back. It's not personal, by the way, when they do it. It's just that if you change and grow, you're a giant signal flair pointing directly to their insecurities and failures and unwillingness to do anything different for themselves.

That's why if you try to lose weight you get little snide comments. Everyone's experienced this one. If you start making more money, people keep finding reasons to mention greed or how bad they had it or how most people don't "have anything" and so forth. You're disrupting their status quo, you're making them insecure, and they try to shame you and guilt you with the "bandwagon effect" to stay put... to stay in your place.

This is very normal and not personal, but over a lifetime you can literally die on the inside. It's the death of 1,000 cuts instead of being beheaded. This is the small-T trauma. The big-T is being beheaded, usually by a parent finding your most vulnerable spot and really going for the kill.

2) Narcissists - I'd call these people the middle-T killers. It's a million cuts but they all cut a little deeper. This isn't personal either, you just happen to be available. These people are the most insecure of all but put on a fake superman mask for the public, and if you step out of line they will enforce their superman status by throwing literal tantrums, raging out, or gaslighting you constantly with lies, or trying to cut your vulnerable spots as frequently as possible. God forbid you win or call them out. You'll pay for that for months if not years. You will be punished.

The reason for all of this is simply to forcibly mold reality around them and manage others behaviors to not only avoid their impossible-to-ignore feelings of inferiority, but to demand that others treat them as special and above everyone else, even if they haven't earned it. Bold-faced lying and full on imaginary crap isn't off-bounds here, just like what happens with the next group that tells you to ignore the evidence of your ears and eyes.

3) Agendas - This isn't about politics, even if I use a real example. Hillary Clinton got busted taking a bunch of money from Wall Street to give "speeches", and she was recorded saying they should remove Civics from school curriculums because a dumb, unaware populous that doesn't know their rights or the make-up of government will be deflated and impotent. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

There's a reason almost all media is complete trash and degenerate and knowingly promoting the worst values possible. There's no elite if everyone is elite. This is the epitome of putting garbage in to get garbage out. And as you've pointed out, we're trained from the start. Going to school is the equivalent of going to a job and having a boss and having overtime work (homework) you won't get paid for, etc.

It's by design. For every queen bee there's got to be zillions of worker bees or the structure falls apart. But the nouveau riche are welcomed to the fold as long as they toe the line. Even when you make it, you'll still have the crabs in the bucket and narcissists trying to murder your spirit.

Perfectionism​

And off to a different topic... I don't think the psychology field ever says perfectionism is a good thing. It's pretty much universally lambasted as an anxiety symptom and a stress creator and as inefficient. And it is.

If it takes you an hour to get to 80% complete and another hour to perfect the other 20%, you've hit severe diminishing returns.

And the reality is that the normal consumer see's 80% completion and thinks it's 100% because they don't know better. They aren't experts. Only experts see the other 20% and that's just jerking off between professionals, competing or being anxious.

A lot of people think they have to be the best before they even get started. This is why you see really complex rappers or technical guitar players who can work their craft better than anyone else and are broke with few fans. There's no appeal to the common man. If your product go past the point where the consumer can understand it and appreciate it, you don't get a sale. It can still be a perfect product but you can't market it on the technical aspects, but on the benefits.

Anyways, that's straying from the point. Perfectionism is a defense mechanism against feelings of inadequacy and a pressure release valve for anxiety.

Fulfilling Your True Potential​

What I said on my first day of therapy was that I felt I was being blocked from my true potential. That my potential was nearly boundless but I'd been beaten into submission in a way that I couldn't get out of myself without some processing of a ton of small-T and a few big-T traumas. And we got to work and have been stripping back onion layers and I'm being freed.

In my opinion, this is the goal of the "Garbage Inners". They feed us trash to kill our potentials for the reasons mentioned above. And there's nothing worse than knowing you can't reach your natural potential. That's the first death that's possible to experience.

And it's a total travesty to not reach your true potential, including physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, financially, and mastery of hobbies, etc. It's a travesty especially if you chose for yourself to reach that potential that was once open to you, or if you feel God has a goal for you that you're blocked from, or the Universe or Fate or whatever has a destined path you're being blocked from.

And in all of these cases, it's our Duty to fix the problem and fulfill our potentials, whatever that takes. And that means re-processing of all the garbage that was forced into us. How you go about doing that is up to you. There's therapy, spiritual work, religious work, taking sabbaticals, bringing responsibility down a notch to clear out the room to do the work, being selfless for a while, and just allowing the time and having the willingness to confront and heal from the garbage.

I see it like a slingshot. The further down in the pit you've been, the higher the ceiling of your true potential is, too. If you've had it easy your whole life, you're simply not going to be a high achiever. So it's a gift and a curse. But being pulled down into the pit means when you force their hands off of you, that rubber band is going to slingshot you into the stratosphere to heights you couldn't have imagined and weren't possible without the suffering first.

This is the turning point where we realize we're driving our body, we can train our brains, we choose the habits to develop, and we choose the inputs. And then we get some pride back and some confidence back, and then we get told it's arrogance.

But we keep on, because it's our potential to fulfill. It can't be done for us, and as a matter of fact, most of the world is actively working against us, killing our potential.

 

[eliquid]

I think it depends, which makes this whole back and forth extremely hard for some people to see.

What's the end goal - I think people miss this the most when talking/debating about this subject.

Why do I bring that up?

Some people want to be successful. Well, what's successful?

For some it's fame, for some it's money, for some it's banging lots of people. - Oddly enough, there are a ton of people that have hit this successful marker and do not have a lot of self esteem or belief in themselves but they hit the end goal they wanted.

On the other end of the spectrum, there a lot of people who believe in themselves and have self esteem, but have no fame, money, and couldn't get a chick if their life depended on it. At least not the one they really wanted.

Replace the fame, money and banging with any end goal. Some have it without it, some don't have it and say they believe in themselves.

Everyone's mileage will differ. It's a profound statement that applies to anything. You can have all the self belief and esteem in the world and still lose/fail.

Similar to willpower. You can have all the willpower in the world and still fail/lose all the time.

It really comes down to routines/daily discipline and putting in the right work.

You can have all the esteem and belief in the world, all the willpower to match it.. but if you aren't daily working on the right steps in life that lead to your end goal, you are going to fail.

Potentially, if you have low esteem and belief and willpower.. you might not ever get to the right tasks you need to be working on daily. But that is potentially, not an exact outcome. I have had plenty of days where I feel low about myself and goals and still came up with the right tasks and did the "work" that was needed that day while feeling like shit.

I'd put my last $1,300 on the person with low self esteem and low belief and low willpower, but is working on the right tasks daily to their end goal, before I would ever put that money on someone with high self esteem, high belief, and high willpower working on the wrong tasks at random to complete their end goal.

If you flip the situation above though and say, "what about the person with high self esteem and belief and willpower working on the right tasks daily?".. you don't know what got them to their end goal. Was it the self esteem/belief/willpower of the right routine/tasks daily? You won't know.

But when you can see people that have high self esteem and belief, that also have nothing... and people with low that hit their end goal.. you have to stop and think what else is at play.

 

[bernard]

One thing I think a lot of people lack who grew up in toxic environments is the experience with planning, setting goals and following through.

When I look back at my early life and my 20s, I was just whinging it, going on what felt good that day and then getting by on whatever talent I had.

No plan, no action, which led to this feeling of not having any power, which again led to stupid shit to make up for that.

If you grew up in a good household, you probably were encouraged to set a goal and helped to make plans for it and then eventually achieve it.

It's that phrase: Failing to plan is planning to fail.

Which as with all things in life needs to be felt on your body to really be understood.

I think quite literally, this experience of lacking something, making a plan to get it, then following through and getting it (or failing) is the core base of self confidence and one of the key lessons in growing up.

 

[smithy]

The CBT model is generally based on how your thoughts and feelings affect your behaviour, though they're all related.

But taking action first is generally a better strategy and then those positive thoughts and feelings will follow.

This is why behaviour experiments are so important.

Even if you change your thoughts and feelings, they will probably go back to before if you don't take action because there is no new evidence. Your reality won't have changed.

Honestly, it's a lot simpler and more effective, though not necessarily easier, to first take action. Your thoughts will then change because of the action you took.

You soon realise that whatever you thought would happen (the worst case scenario in your head) didn't happen or something did happen, but you discovered that it wasn't that bad, and you handled it.

Even so, it's pretty easy to forget this stuff, which is why it's a good idea to journal, fill in worksheets or whatever that you can refer back to every time your mind tries to fuck you over. And it will try to fuck you over every single day of your life.

Waiting until you get your mind in the right place is just another excuse, even if it feels like the right thing to do and you're making progress. By all means, focus on positive messages, but make sure you're doing that at the same time and are not using it to delay taking action.

“It's a terrible thing, I think, in life to wait until you're ready. I have this feeling now that actually no one is ever ready to do anything. There is almost no such thing as ready. There is only now. And you may as well do it now. Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.” - Hugh Laurie

 

[MinstrelJunkie]

Just to throw another +1 onto the therapy side of things. I've started it recently and feel the same as Ryu, it's like stripping back the layers that block you from reaching your true potential. It's fantastic that this forum has helped you realise these things, but there's no replacement for talking things through with a professional who can guide you.

I always thought it would be like seeing a doctor, but it's not. It's more like a deep talk with your best friend, but it's only focused on you. And your friend happens to be an expert equipped with knowledge around all the biases you may be challenged with.

Given everything that you've covered with your background, I imagine you'd get a huge return from it. Yes, you can try to figure out all this stuff on your own, but that'll take much longer and will be messier. Working through it with a professional is like a shortcut to growing into who you want to become.

Also:
Done > Perfect.

 

[Jesse]

I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I'm not going to go through and respond to each individual thing because it's so much, but I very much appreciate your time.

I will say that I know about 95% of what people are talking about here, and I agree with virtually all of it. It's all great advice in general, and it's all stuff I've went through over the years while working on this one specific problem.

Think long and hard about this quote:

"You've been ashamed as just how powerful you are."

This hit the nail on the head. Conceptually, I've known that shame (toxic shame, technically speaking) was the result of the type of programming I mentioned. For whatever reason, I never made the connection that it was shame that I was feeling until the past few days, and this bit I quoted here just hammered it home with no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

It makes sense why I was starting to feel that actively practicing the exact opposite of shame was what would put a dent in this. I can see the pieces of this coming together for me now, and I know what to do to fix it.

Just to add to this point, I'm thinking that shame and enthusiasm are opposites. Shame is possession by the herd, and enthusiasm is possession by the gods.

For anyone reading this later on, I was interested to find that "shame culture" is a well-developed idea.

Thanks everyone again.

 

[DanielS]

This hit the nail on the head. Conceptually, I've known that shame (toxic shame, technically speaking) was the result of the type of programming I mentioned. For whatever reason, I never made the connection that it was shame that I was feeling until the past few days, and this bit I quoted here just hammered it home with no doubt in my mind whatsoever.

Something that also plays a role in feeling shame for me personally is nostalgia. Most of the time, the issue is the environment around you (people, places, etc.) but I've noticed that feelings of nostalgia always claw me back a bit (I claw myself back, I mean). "I wish things were like that still- maybe I should get back into playing video games more so I can relive that feeling...", "Maybe I should just get a job again...", etc.

 

[MrMedia]

Imagine if all these feelings were channeled into action.

There would be another few millionaires in this thread.

I have a story but I channeled my feels into anger and action.

It was dark but shit got done.

This is not that.

 

[bernard]

Honestly, it's a lot simpler and more effective, though not necessarily easier, to first take action. Your thoughts will then change because of the action you took.

Yeah, I have a book at home about that concept applied to organisations, that basically your brain works to create reasons for what you do, which we all know in the negative.

The key then is to find ways to get things started and keep up the habits for a while, because then your brain will change and find ways to rationalize your new positive habits.

It's like going to the gym, it sucks at first, but after a while nothing can stop you from going.

 

[Ryuzaki]

The key then is to find ways to get things started and keep up the habits for a while, because then your brain will change and find ways to rationalize your new positive habits.

There's a lot to be said about phrases like "rise to the occasion" and "don't wait till you feel better to do something. Do something as if you feel better first and the rest will follow" and all that.

@smithy mentioned Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. A lot of people think it's Thoughts --> Emotions --> Actions. But it's really <-- Thoughts <--> Emotions <--> Actions --> in not only a loop but in between each other as well. You can insert curative measures anywhere in that triangle and get improvements.

 

[Jesse]

I've solved my issue, and I wanted to give some replies to some of the responses I got here since I appreciate them. However, I don't have time to do a complete breakdown of the issue, what was going on, what the components were and how I've set about fixing it. I'd like to do a longer post about that in the future, but right now, things are incredibly hectic for me because I'm in the middle of a move that has went sideways.

What I said on my first day of therapy was that I felt I was being blocked from my true potential.

Therapy wasn't helpful for me, but I've had the exact feeling for a very long time. I can distinctly remember it as far back as middle school/early high school ages. For me, this feeling is tangential to...

Imagine if all these feelings were channeled into action.

I was able to do this to an extent. It was enough to take me from living at my parents broke post-college to supporting a family from building a solid freelancing business for over a decade.

In general, the advice of "just take action" along these lines almost always correct. I'll back that 100 percent. However, something else was more "under the hood" holding me back, and the more I acted, the worse I felt to the point of regular vomiting.

Some people want to be successful. Well, what's successful?

I've always had a pretty straightforward sense of what I wanted, and while I was able to get this other version of "success" that makes sense to other people, I've never been able to get what I actually want vis-a-vis my own definition of success. I should point out that your post(s) on alignment were helpful in recognizing that a few months ago as a part of me figuring all of this out.

Along these lines, I've always felt that it was sort of "locked behind" solving this despair issue, which I believe I have figured out.

Thanks again for the replies everyone.