What credit card(s) do you recommend for paid advertising?

[Sutra]

Hey all,

Would like to get your opinions on the best credit card(s) to use for running paid ads. We're doing about $40k a month in ad spend and it's increasing each month. Currently we're just using a CC that gets points to redeem for cash.

I'd like something that allows a high limit, or at least allows to expand the limits pretty quickly. As we'll be ramping things up as we scale. I like the idea of cash back, obviously, hah. But perhaps there are some other things I'm not considering/aware of that are preferable to cash back.

I know @eliquid and others are doing far more than us in ad spend, and have tons of experience, so would love to hear your thoughts.

 

[Steve Brownlie]

Hey all,

Would like to get your opinions on the best credit card(s) to use for running paid ads. We're doing about $40k a month in ad spend and it's increasing each month. Currently we're just using a CC that gets points to redeem for cash.

I'd like something that allows a high limit, or at least allows to expand the limits pretty quickly. As we'll be ramping things up as we scale. I like the idea of cash back, obviously, hah. But perhaps there are some other things I'm not considering/aware of that are preferable to cash back.

I know @eliquid and others are doing far more than us in ad spend, and have tons of experience, so would love to hear your thoughts.

If you'll use the points AMEX is great. The points are worth a lot more than cashback if you like nice flights and nice hotels...

The main value on points though for flying is the last minute flexibility. You don't have to plan when you're coming back etc. Like when I visit my old man I usually just book a flight out in business class one way then when we decide on a date/where we're even going to be book the flight back. One way or flexible business class tickets are obv ridic as they're priced for enterprise/last minute executive travel - so getting a good deal normally involves planning 6+ months out and even then... not always the best way to spend your money. Points eradicate that issue completely.

 

[eliquid]

I think the problem you are going to run into is multiples of:

1. You can do points with high limit on a bunch of cards, but you're stuck with points.
   1. This is fine for me personally, but some people and business don't want to be stuck with points. You can redeem points for cash, but it's generally at a lesser value redemption overall.
   2. You need to find which points program you prefer. In general the top 2 are Chase and Amex. Each has their benefits.
   3. If you are looking to get max value from points, there is a whole education that comes with it, might be bothersome for some people to learn if they want the most benefit.
   4. My person favs for this are the Business Gold Amex where you get 4x on advertising and also the Chase Ink Business Preferred where you get 3x on advertising up to $150k in spend. - the trick here is to have multiple Ink Business Preferred cards when you hit the limit. If you have a spouse, they can get the card too and now you have 2 to change out.
      1. One reason I switch between Amex and Chase is dependent on which program I need points with for certain travel, and also if I start to hit limits on either.
2. For cashback, on normal CC you run into limits for a lot of them. Like X% cash back up to $25k in spend. This is how a lot of offers are structured. Im not saying all, but like 98% of them.
   1. You end up playing switch CC games every month of you do this.
   2. Even if you have a high limit, like $150k, your cash back is still at $25k for the highest cash back value.
   3. The cash back stuff changes a lot, and the limits to get the most cash back are always changing too. Since there are so many issuers in this space, I just don't keep up with it since it would mean me switching cards all the time, so I don't have a great recommendation here for normal CC on cashback, but I would stick to Chase/Citi/Amex for this if I was you and you wanted to hit cashback for some reason more.
3. The real trick is getting set up with corporate financing.
   1. When you start getting up into the $500k+ plus spend monthly, you are going to want to look into processing changes anyway most likely.
   2. A lot of these setup can offer custom Mastercard processing with custom rates. Basically you agree to a set $X level of spend for a year in a contract, they agree to certain rates for the processing AND the financing.
   3. This setup tends to work the best, but if you dont hit the agreement on your spend, you can end up blowing up the whole setup and wasting money.

They don't have rewards on debit cards anymore ( on any bank I know of ), but back in the day when they did.. talking 2008-2010-ish...

Chase was the best at it. I had 5 debit cards with 1M points EACH on them ( the most points you could get per car was 1M ) and I ended up turning those into HomeDepot and Lowes gift cards ( $100 each ) and outfitted my whole house with new appliances, wood, and tools, etc. They got rid of rewards for debit cards shortly after that.

^^ by $100 each gift cards, I mean I had like hundreds and hundreds of these gift cards and I would take them to HD and Lowes and would have like 32 of them in 1 trip, 51 in another trip, etc.

They always thought I stole them and would have to call their main office to verify when I used them

 

[secretagentdad]

I love chase rewards. Especially the stupid perks.

You can get non rip off road side assistance and lounge access fringe perks if you go into your settings page and activate them. These end up being weirdly valuable if you travel. Free breakfast and coffee at airports is awesome especially on busy travel days. If you don't go activate it you don't get it.

 

[eliquid]

I do like Chase. But I like Amex too.

If you travel... the points setup, if you learn it, is pretty nice. I don't go through a lot of points hoop jumping to get the most value, but I do get into it midways.

My airport sucks, so I fly a lot of domestic one-way flights on budget airlines like Southwest, etc. We have Delta and AA, and others.. but 1st class domestic is a joke so I opt for budget airlines with one-way to the destination I am going on a small jet so it's only 2 seats instead of 3 on the sides so it ends up being me and just the wife sitting together. I'll upgrade for a small fee to sit in the area with more legroom.. but I don't use points for flights just because of my home airport.

So my travel game with points is largely hotel based.

Hyatt ( Chase ) will get you the most value for your points generally, but I prefer Hilton ( Amex ) and Marriot and staying in the top hotels in those chains. If you like IHG, stay with Chase.

Marriot ( I believe ) is in both Chase and Amex, so I know I can always get a Marriot stay for free no matter what card I use with Marriot.

So my plan is largely spending on both Chase and Amex in general for points and then transferring those to Marriot and staying at St Regis, W, Ritz, etc. I also hold a Marriot branded card for the status perk and free night. The points get more value than cashback and I get a stay, and the branded card gets me an upgrade most times too for the room/suite.

If I have to go Hilton, I'll transfer the Amex points to Hilton Honors and stay at a Waldorf or Conrad ( like in Ft Lauderdale ). I have a Hilton branded card too, so I know I'll get an upgrade and another free night thrown in too.

Things get really crazy when you realize these programs have transfer bonuses.. so like if you transfer 300,000 points from Chase to Marriot, Marriot might be having a 50% bonus so you end up having 450,000 points at Marriot ( same at other chains ). Then you throw in they might be having a 4th or 5th night free, and then also you might have free night certs, and top status for upgrades.... and it becomes a complete free for all almost what you can get out of it.

And all of this just because you spend on ads.

BTW, even though I hate my airport.. I can get Southwest companion pass where my wife can fly almost for 2 years free. Yes, no cap. I'll be working on that point deal coming up q4 this year.

So 50% off flights, and free hotel stays for weeks on end... all because you choose the right cards to spend on.

 

[Sutra]

@eliquid Wonderful, thank you. I'll look into the Amex gold and Chase business preferred like you mentioned.

Love staying at nice hotels with my wife, so that travel info is great. And that tip about the corporate cards is awesome. Just the type of thing that will help me take it to the next level.

Appreciate you taking the time to write such an in-depth reply.

 

[Poplanu]

If you'll use the points AMEX is great. The points are worth a lot more than cashback if you like nice flights and nice hotels...

The main value on points though for flying is the last minute flexibility. You don't have to plan when you're coming back etc. Like when I visit my old man I usually just book a flight out in business class one way then when we decide on a date/where we're even going to be book the flight back. One way or flexible business class tickets are obv ridic as they're priced for enterprise/last minute executive travel - so getting a good deal normally involves planning 6+ months out and even then... not always the best way to spend your money. Points eradicate that issue completely.

Steve, you're based in the UK, I know that in Europe we don't have any of that point stuff with credit cards. Do you have a US LLC with a partner or how do you get those points? Something I've been thinking about as well.

 

[Steve Brownlie]

Steve, you're based in the UK, I know that in Europe we don't have any of that point stuff with credit cards. Do you have a US LLC with a partner or how do you get those points? Something I've been thinking about as well.

UK AMEX isn't amazing like US AMEX but it's still decent enough to get a lot of free stuff fortunately .

 

[ks1905]

If you want to get the most value out of your spend then learn the rules of each bank, hotel, and airline partner that you want to use. If you don’t then you’ll start running into preventable roadblocks. Example: 5/24, one in 5, one in 30, 5-credit card rule, etc.

As you get established with a bank then they will keep giving you higher and higher credit limits. When I take a new Chase INK card they will now start me with an $80k limit and I can make multiple payments though out the month if I choose to with Chase towards my balance (they allow it) - be careful with the multiple payments in a month because some banks don’t like it (it’s called cycling and gets you around their credit limits).

There are also “charge cards” and they are different from credit cards; they basically do not have a published credit limit but you’re expected to pay the card off each month. Amex Biz Gold, Platinum, Chase Ink Premiere, and Capital One Venture-x Business are the first charge cards that come to mind.

If you want to do a cash back play then it’s most likely Chase because they don’t make you take a haircut to convert points to cash back. Amex makes you jump through some hoops with additional products before you can get 100% cash back from your points.

ALWAYS look for an elevated signup bonus, it’s free money out of their marketing budgets. Amex Biz Gold has a150k signup bonus and Chase has an 120k SUB on their Ink Preferred card. DM if you’d like further suggestions and I have their referral links if you need them.

The real value is in transferring the points out to hotel and airline partners. $40k a month can get you almost business two business class (lie-flat seats) airline tickets to Tokyo (probably worth over $15k). I think Amex’s cash out payout rate is $0.006 per point which would be $960 back per the 160k points that you’d earn on your spend each month.

If you want even more perks then use your spend to get status at the hotels and airlines. I’m a Hyatt Globalist and the perks are amazing.

A good rule of thumb is Amex for international flights and Chase for hotels. Domestic flights use the banks’ travel portals or the airlines codeshare partners for the same flights for less points (BA, Virgin, Turkish, Alaska, etc).

Also, not all points have the same value so learn their valuations if you want to maximize your return on spend. A Hyatt point is worth about 2 cents and a Hilton point is worth about .5 cents. Most of the time for short stays with Marriott you’re better off paying with cash because they’ve devalued their program so much.

 

[Smith]

You can get a US credit card (AMEX, Chase, Citi, etc) as a foreign non-resident. I did it. Have been earning US travel points for 7 years. Well worth it when compared to the shit rewards programs in other countries. Sign up bonuses and regular spend have covered most of my travel and lots of hotel stays over the years.

 

[Poplanu]

You can get a US credit card (AMEX, Chase, Citi, etc) as a foreign non-resident. I did it. Have been earning US travel points for 7 years. Well worth it when compared to the shit rewards programs in other countries. Sign up bonuses and regular spend have covered most of my travel and lots of hotel stays over the years.

Interesting, I looked into the LLC ones and there was something about having a US person having to own 15% of it if I remember for specifically a credit card. How did you do it? Or what kind of criteria was there for getting one?

 

[Smith]

US person having to own 15%

You don't need a US person. That would destroy the value that a US LLC offers to foreigners.

As a foreign non-resident (single owner), US LLCs are a 0% tax passthrough entity. Domicile yourself in a zero-tax country and your personal and business tax rate is 0% legally. It's a bit more complicated than that, but not much.

How did you do it?

Got a US tax ID as a foreigner (ITIN = same as SSN but for foreigners). Could get this because I have a US LLC and have to file an informational return every year.

I then got a secured card. Six months later applied to Chase Saphire. Never looked back. I have a decent monthly spend (nothing like some of the guys here though) and pay the cards off in full each month. So the card companies like me and keep sending me more offers. I'm a foreigner with zero US assets and I have mid-six figures in unsecured US credit... it's kind of insane.

I haven't spent a lot of time figuring out the 'hacking' and 'burning cards' etc. I basically just stick with the same providers and might add new cards when offers are good. I mainly use Chase and Amex and have had a few hotel cards.

 

[BakerStreet]

I just use a chase double cash back card with 2% cash back. Sure I could optimize my setup a lot more but cash back is a coupon and not income so it’s not taxed

$1 in cash back is about $1.50 in income

I then just cash out and move it into a savings account. The luxuries I’m planning on getting are not business class flights or a fancy hotel. It’s a villa and a vacation house in lake como Italy or somewhere near the alps. We can fly with Ryanair to the lake house. That’s fine with me.

Awesome thread though.

 

[CryptoDavid]

Is this point maxing thing with cards even worth it?

 

[Smith]

Is this point maxing thing with cards even worth it?

It depends on whether you travel or not....

I've booked three international business class flights (round-trip) for my family of four this year and just had to pay a few hundred in taxes... so many thousands of dollars saved... and all I had to do was use my credit card to pay for things that I was going to pay for anyway.

That said, if I had a really high monthly spend like some of the guys here I would definitely be doing cash-back instead of points since I wouldn't be able to use all the points being earned. But, I'm not at that level yet, so travel rewards still make sense for my situation.

 

[eliquid]

Is this point maxing thing with cards even worth it?

It depends on whether you travel or not....

I've booked three international business class flights (round-trip) for my family of four this year and just had to pay a few hundred in taxes... so many thousands of dollars saved... and all I had to do was use my credit card to pay for things that I was going to pay for anyway.

That said, if I had a really high monthly spend like some of the guys here I would definitely be doing cash-back instead of points since I wouldn't be able to use all the points being earned. But, I'm not at that level yet, so travel rewards still make sense for my situation.

You dont have to travel though, although that is where you get the most value.

When I bought my home, I cashed out all my points for Home Depot, Lowes, and other gift cards.

Furnished my home for free with all new appliances, furniture, and more.

 

[ks1905]

Is this point maxing thing with cards even worth it?

It’s tax free money from your business and its spend. Whether it is worth it or not is a personal thing. Once you learn the rules and the game then it’s on basically on autopilot.

The rewards are outsized and sometimes hard to grasp. It’s there if you’re interested. For many people it’s not worth it and they feel their time is better spent elsewhere.

I can get an $800 hotel room in NYC, upgraded to a suite, free parking, free breakfast in their dinning room or room service for two. No fees or taxes. I’m allowed to checkout at 4 PM. I walkout paying $0 and this is all for $8,000 of ad spend on Chase Ink Card combined with my status at Hyatt for all of yearly spend with Hyatt.

 

[Poplanu]

Got a US tax ID as a foreigner (ITIN = same as SSN but for foreigners). Could get this because I have a US LLC and have to file an informational return every year.

I then got a secured card. Six months later applied to Chase Saphire. Never looked back. I have a decent monthly spend (nothing like some of the guys here though) and pay the cards off in full each month. So the card companies like me and keep sending me more offers. I'm a foreigner with zero US assets and I have mid-six figures in unsecured US credit... it's kind of insane.

Thanks, this is helpful. Good to know the opportunity is there.

As a foreign non-resident (single owner), US LLCs are a 0% tax passthrough entity. Domicile yourself in a zero-tax country and your personal and business tax rate is 0% legally. It's a bit more complicated than that, but not much.

I've heard of people doing this with Paraguay, but having to live there to make it work always seemed a little excessive to me. I guess you're already doing this, or at least have looked at all the options. What are the best countries in your opinion where this would work?

I've messed around with taxation things before in Europe, and it always came out easier to legally pay a lower rate somewhere (8%-10%-12%) rather than start organizing a 0% scheme. Hence my curiosity