Google Algorithm Updates - 2023 Ongoing Discussion

[bernard]

Let's wait and see, usually there is some sort of semi-reversal after an initial crazy shock.

I personally do not think they will keep this. The results I'm seeing are too bad, too irrelevant, they overdid the link/age metric imo.

 

[Darth]

To the ones not doing so well:

1. Are you all primarily affiliate sites / not display ads / not informational?
2. Do you have a brand? Do people search in Google for you at all, eg ("best family SUV ryuscarsite.com")

 

[bernard]

To the ones not doing so well:

1. Are you all primarily affiliate sites / not display ads / not informational?
2. Do you have a brand? Do people search in Google for you at all, eg ("best family SUV ryuscarsite.com")

I'm an affiliate site built on a branded expired domain and I still get quite a bit of brand searches.

Google categorized the site as "price comparison" in a mobile search I made. I forgot where it popped up, but it showed my site in some sort of "suggested" box and it said "Price comparison sites" and mine was listed there.

IDK do paywalls prevent A.I tools from scrapping their content?

Yes, probably, I tried scraping directly from them with AI but you can't.

 

[tyealia]

everyone's revenue seemed like it was going down before this update. But then I asked a few people and their sites were up.

Most of them do display ad revenue.

In an only display ad forum im in, 95% of all posts today are people freaking out over 20-25% drops. I have 6 display ad sites, and every single one is down between 20-25%; it's almost suspicious all of them are near those numbers.

I thought that SGE had started rolling out more, which I saw on Twitter people saying it's now present for mobile, though I can't see it myself. This could be possible.

Also, I considered this may be the reshuffle as use signals are reset, but even then, I haven't seen a hit this big portfolio-wide for years, so it's worrying.

Finally, there was a big jump in Q/A sites and forums like Reddit and Quora, which could be eating into many queries.

I expected SGE to give these types of hit numbers, not a normal Google update; now, this is getting scary with SGE, cookies, and more AI coming.

Usually, I check what Nichepursuits is doing to see what will be oversaturated soon; they just started a big new case study project with infosite AI content, so get ready for another 2000 bulk generators to start hitting the niches with generated AI. Hell, even Koala just launched a rewrite option for articles, and people are already having their entire sites copied with AI and complaining.

On the positive side, I just ate a delicious burger oceanside, that Google helped me pay for for 10+ years, we had a good run, sir.

 

[smithy]

To the ones not doing so well:

1. Are you all primarily affiliate sites / not display ads / not informational?
2. Do you have a brand? Do people search in Google for you at all, eg ("best family SUV ryuscarsite.com")

90/10 informational to affiliate content. My affiliate content actually seems to be doing better the past few months, though definitely not compared to last year.

Branded expired domain. I have an address, phone number, emails for relevant sections, schema etc. BBB and foursquare pages. Backlinks from high DR sites in its niche, as well as from NY Times, Business Insider, Forbes etc.

In other words, I feel that I'm doing everything right and should be rewarded for it, not penalised.

Keywords that used to rank number 1 have dropped to the 2nd page in some cases. It's hard to believe that user intent, quality, relevance etc. has changed that drastically.

Even when I do things like trying to implement information gain with unique research, other sites copy my research, sometimes even reference my site by name, yet rank above me.

What makes this even more insulting is that Google call it the "helpful content" update.

I lost all my featured snippets a while ago, which caused a big drop. But with every update, Google somehow finds a way to send less and less traffic.

Even when I compare keywords that haven't changed position since last year, traffic is still a fraction of what it was. This could be because long-tail traffic has declined, but with every update Google inevitably does what is best for them, not users, by changing the layout, showing more ads, removing SERP features.

Of course, a much lesser site I haven't touched in 2 years and does very little that Google says it is looking for has seen zero change all this time.

If I was a conspiracist, I would say that Google has no interest in delivering the best results. Google is synonymous with search, so no matter how frustrated users are, they will still keep on searching on Google, visiting sites, and clicking back, until they find the content they want, which is exactly what Google wants and results in the most profit.

Go to reddit and you'll see people asking, is it just me or has Google search results declined hugely in quality?

Users aren't happy, we aren't happy, but looking at Alphabet's share price, they certainly are.

 

[Smith]

I know we're in the middle of the rollout and everything could change in the next week but so far I'm seeing similar outcomes to @MrMedia.

My existing site is up aroud 24% since the update and 49% YOY.

Actually, my YOY gains are much higher (around 6x). But I implemented several "fixes" about a year ago after getting hit by a few too many Google updates. Basically, I went into full recovery mode. So I was starting at such a low base to begin with. But month-over-month gains are continuing in the +20% range a year later.

My biggest takeaway from the last year (and performance during the most recent updates) has been exactly what MrMedia said:

i genuinely believe content volume / velocity is the answer to many peoples problems here

In fact, I'm investing more in content now than I ever have. I want to triple content production by the end of the year. Maybe SGE comes in like a wrecking ball.... but maybe it doesn't. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Also, I've seen a few people reference AI content. I've tested it but opted not to go that route. Instead, and maybe this is a backward approach in the age of AI, I'm using actual subject matter experts to produce human-written content. So far it seems to be working.

@MrMedia mind if I ask if you're generating AI content or human content?

And @smithy asked about DR. The site I'm talking about is a DR 45 site and it's getting similar results to MrMedia's DR 70 site.

I remember you mentioned that your site is DR 70+.

Do you think that is why your site is so far immune for these updates?

And in terms of niche, it's heavy EEAT and YMYL.

least valuable niches that are safe from EEAT and YMYL

 

[Strike]

One of my bigger sites got hit for about 40% by this. Been around for nearly a decade, not an expired domain, no AI content. Large focus on linkbuilding but all whitehat. Has some branded searches and good social engagement. Not YMYL.

Part of it is no longer ranking for product parent terms on my review posts.

However roundup posts are also doing worse as well as the reviews themselves for their primary keywords.

I think they have turned up the age dial again and possibly links as well given what is performing better. Basically a case of lower-effort content on older sites ranking better.

Assuming this sticks around, does anyone have any case studies on removing an unhelpful content classifier from one of the past HCUs? There are some content tweaks I could do despite my belief it's not primarily to do with that.

 

[bernard]

Twitter is also complaining.

Some there are also pointing out that now high DR sites seem to rank with only slightly related content over very specific content.

 

[MrMedia]

I know we're in the middle of the rollout and everything could change in the next week but so far I'm seeing similar outcomes to @MrMedia.



Actually, my YOY gains are much higher (around 6x). But I implemented several "fixes" about a year ago after getting hit by a few too many Google updates. Basically, I went into full recovery mode. So I was starting at such a low base to begin with. But month-over-month gains are continuing in the +20% range a year later.

My biggest takeaway from the last year (and performance during the most recent updates) has been exactly what MrMedia said:



In fact, I'm investing more in content now than I ever have. I want to triple content production by the end of the year. Maybe SGE comes in like a wrecking ball.... but maybe it doesn't. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Also, I've seen a few people reference AI content. I've tested it but opted not to go that route. Instead, and maybe this is a backward approach in the age of AI, I'm using actual subject matter experts to produce human-written content. So far it seems to be working.

@MrMedia mind if I ask if you're generating AI content or human content?

And @smithy asked about DR. The site I'm talking about is a DR 45 site and it's getting similar results to MrMedia's DR 70 site.



And in terms of niche, it's heavy EEAT and YMYL.

No AI for me - all human made.

 

[tziahs]

Perhaps but i genuinely believe content volume / velocity is the answer to many peoples problems here. No one wants to invest 5 figures a month in content incase it doesn’t work.

When they don’t the site crashes and their existing theory is proven correct and they give up.

It’s a vicious circle if you believe the fear.

This is exactly what I am starting to notice too. Whenever I post more content, more frequently, longer, better, I see growth. It's like the only method that truly works is pure grit.

Do the work, write and publish more content, do better research than your competition, and do it every single day.

Perhaps the key to SEO is: more content, more content, more content... and even more content.

 

[bernard]

I'm using AI content and I will continue to use AI content.

For years I tried going the extra mile, I recruited actual experts, I asked for product samples, I made custom images and illustrations.

It worked for a little bit and then all the bigger players just copied my content and eventually I found myself outranked to page 2.

It isn't working. Going the extra mile isn't working for affiliate reviews and SEO. Google can't tell it apart from lesser quality, not if the lesser quality is short and mobile friendly and on a DR80 domain.

 

[tziahs]

@bernard you may be onto something;
Google's recent helpful content update embraces, although indirectly, AI content:

(there's no more "written by people")

It's a major sign that things will change in SEO, and we need to adapt. Sure, some visitors may detect that your content is "a little off" and may seem a little wordy, but most won't notice it. There are many studies and tests done on this - most users don't detect human written vs. AI content. And they don't even care.
Really interested to see where SEO will be in 5 years...

 

[AhFreshMeat]

What’s funny is the actual search results are absolutely not more helpful than previously.

Not a shot that google actually believes this update is helping users locate more helpful content…

I like mr media’s mindset, or atleast what I took from it: Do more, be better, be resilient, you knew this could happen so how did you prep to diversify? I personally have tackled social media traffic (on top of my current SEO workflow) ever since SGE announced and its working quite well.

 

[Smith]

I personally have tackled social media traffic (on top of my current SEO workflow) ever since SGE announced and its working quite well.

This is something I've been wanting to do. Are you mainly focused on distribution and generating clicks, building an engaged audience/community, or something else entirely?

 

[secretagentdad]

They updated a reference index.
If your stuff didn't make the cut it was either to late to get into the sampling or deemed inferior compared to the other samples in the reference indexes. Someone else put out better signals than you during the sampling period. Outperform them or move down. If you're bitching about moving down its probably because someone with better signals also got some applicable content indexed for your topic.
From the impact on my sites it looks like off recent off site signals we're boosted a bit or just added to the consideration pool. I don't do anywhere near as much content as the majority of OPs here and these last few updates have been great for me. Aged high quality stuff that has not been getting any new links moved down. My stuff that has been getting more recent mentions and links moved up. Seems pretty straight forward.

Another note, on some competitive serps I obsess over looks like round up lists which had been performing a bit better this year are down several places in favor of home pages that are listed within the succesful round up articles. Also, new round ups from high powered domains replaced some older articles completely and the old articles dropped out of the serps.

 

[Poplanu]

Spotted on Twitter:

 

[bernard]

Another note, on some competitive serps I obsess over looks like round up lists which had been performing a bit better this year are down several places in favor of home pages that are listed within the succesful round up articles

What do you mean by this?

 

[secretagentdad]

The serps are mix of articles such as
Top 5 or Top 10 lists + a bunch providers home pages for the given service.
Some new lists got swapped in from domains with 10s of thousands of real links, and a couple of existing ones that had been front page moved down a few places. The keywords in question are extremely competitive. Not car insurance tier but darn close.

 

[Marelli]

Google obviously wants to make the SERPs so terrible that SGE look like upgrade.

Some turbo-ultra-low-quality AI content behemoths have managed to outrank genuine businesses and real experts in my niche (including me).

Right now SERP looks more like shitful content update.

Let’s hope it will sort out in a week or two.

 

[bernard]

From the impact on my sites it looks like off recent off site signals we're boosted a bit or just added to the consideration pool. I don't do anywhere near as much content as the majority of OPs here and these last few updates have been great for me. Aged high quality stuff that has not been getting any new links moved down. My stuff that has been getting more recent mentions and links moved up. Seems pretty straight forward.

I do think there's something to links this time around.

 

[secretagentdad]

So I went and looked up things.
They swapped up who's round up lists ranked.
Straight up the root domains with the highest DA/ Ahrefs rank / majestic links are top now.
Those metrics might be BS but the correlation is right there.

I think its safe to say they turned some knobs and one of them was domain backlinks which was slightly increased in importance.

Also of note a bunch of mutli results where a domain + a few other urls from the domain were getting packs were removed. Now there is just one url per site.

 

[Ryuzaki]

Here's what I tend to see:

• The more general the search query, the more segmented the top 10 slots are. You may have a few eCommerce at the top, a couple "what is ___?" type of pages, some "how to" page, a couple videos, etc. The more general, the more varied are the searcher's intents, and Google is trying to serve them all. This means you get chances to sneak up in traditionally eComm keywords ("bicycles"), but there are far fewer chances than on keywords where the intent is clear and you're meeting that intent.
• Google seems to be preserving one slot for a less powered site. They know they're tied too deeply into links and that also protects them from spam, and they know that's hurting their quality too because "hidden gems" stay hidden. So they're creating the ability to rotate in weaker sites with good content, but it's very limited.
• Google is developing a recency bias, more and more like a social media feed than a search engine. Freshness has become important and I don't think refreshing your freshness signal is remotely as powerful as starting over with a brand new page. You'll begin to hear more and more, or have begun to hear, big players spending more time massaging their existing content than publishing new content, as a deeply mission critical activity, far more than it's ever been.
• To defend from the onslaught of AI spam, they've done two classic things and one new thing. The two classics are to re-weight the variables to bias towards new pages on bigger and older "household" name brands with serious recognition, and to bias themselves towards stronger link profiles again, which really reduces the size of the internet for most people, which is a problem for Google in terms of satisfaction.
• So, to fight against that, they're giving small businesses (non-local-to-you local biz, mom & pop stores) a huge boost in the EEAT considerations, whether they deserve it or not. Emulating them doesn't seem to help you achieve that either without (my assumption) a Google My Business profile, which includes other verifications. This is entirely wasted traffic for everyone involved.
• And the worst of all which will only get worse is that the large majority of searches are on mobile and as many as 2 or more screen height scrolls are required before you get to any actual results that aren't ads or rich snippets or Google properties.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a wall of text already.

 

[Marelli]

So, to fight against that, they're giving small businesses (non-local-to-you local biz, mom & pop stores) a huge boost in the EEAT considerations, whether they deserve it or not. Emulating them doesn't seem to help you achieve that either without (my assumption) a Google My Business profile, which includes other verifications. This is entirely wasted traffic for everyone involved.

Absolutely. Just checked a few important (for me) keywords and there is always a ‘non-local-to-me business’ in at least top 10 to dilute low-quality masive content sites.

But again, the problem is content quality.

Or absence of quality, if you will.

 

[MrMedia]

Meanwhile...... Today I published just under 12k words of content across 2 websites and did zero investigation in the extreme subtleties of an algorithim update no one apart from G will ever fully understand.

 

[freshpeppermint]

I'm using AI content and I will continue to use AI content.

For years I tried going the extra mile, I recruited actual experts, I asked for product samples, I made custom images and illustrations.

It worked for a little bit and then all the bigger players just copied my content and eventually I found myself outranked to page 2.

It isn't working. Going the extra mile isn't working for affiliate reviews and SEO. Google can't tell it apart from lesser quality, not if the lesser quality is short and mobile friendly and on a DR80 domain.

This is a good point however, did you see conversions go up or down when you were more genuine and stuff?

I outrank this one guy but I see he has way more comments and stuff, this tells me that more people realized his article was authentic and genuine so he probably got more sales no?

You don't think in long run it will improve user singles and stuff and your site will go up?