Google Algorithm Updates - 2023 Ongoing Discussion

[freshpeppermint]

I'm not going to divulge anything specific, because I learned that shit the hard way back in Wickedfire days.. but

I'm actually in the bank space for SEO. Not for anything "bonus" related, but I'm assuming they are wanting to rank for other terms besides the sign on bonus and other promos. Like, for other terms too in general.

Here is what I will tell you.

I have no authority, no social profiles, less than 50 articles, and Im competing against some of the largest names in the space.

I'm not #1, but I'm generally top 4 for the keywords that matter, and have been for going on 2+ years now.

Knowing how SEO is, over the years, and how competitors are... again over the years, I wouldn't spend my time on developing widgets to tell if banks are open or any of that stuff.

If you know how to rank, it much easier to match and exceed, get it up, rank and bank, and when it crashes down in 9 months ( if it does ), repeat the process again for what's working to rank. I'm not going to spend a lot of time and money on a widget only to end up not ranking or lose it in 9 months ( or less ). Or worse, have someone copy it and then outrank me with it if I get hit with a penalty or suffer from lower DR.

In some niches, I would say you are right.

In others, it doesn't make sense unless you have such a moat that the time and money sink is meaningless. Like, if you were BankRate or Nerd Wallet.

^^ Even then, let them do it and you just sit at #2 or #3. Plenty of money to be made not being #1

Hey quick question for you, you mention your doing SEO in the banking space. Do you do any sort of social? If not that'd be ironic since everyone below your post is saying to do social. I know you do paid ads but, do you do any "free social traffic" in ANY of your business that make up most of your money?

Also for those saying you must do socials, how come on authority hackers did a survey on affiliate marketers and if you take a look at their stats for primary traffic source:

You can see the ones who have the most experience do social media way less than the newbie ones and 1-2 year people. And Gael or the other guy said "Maybe it's because they realize social media isn't worth it."

(Watch from here)

And since you guys are analyzing sites, how come this site which is a pretty big site is still doing fine without any social?
https://best-minecraft-servers.co/

Also, most people who do case studies and make money on BUSO, if I had to predict the vast majority of them are SEO first businesses. If social media was superior to SEO why wouldn't most of them do social media?? Either it's way harder or it's harder to scale or they just don't know. (I doubt it's the fact that they don't know.) There has to be a reason why most people are talking on the Search section of this forum rather than the marketing section.

 

[Smith]

the most experience do social media way less than the newbie ones and 1-2 year people

This chart doesn't appear to say anything about what people do with their time. It's just a reflection of where their traffic is coming from. Two very different measurements.

And wouldn't it make sense that people with 3-5 or more years of experience are able to generate more traffic from SEO than people who are less than 1 year in the game?

The same goes for email marketing. If you have 5 years of experience you're probably operating a site that isn't brand new. So you probably have an established list with many subs... which means you would drive more traffic through email than someone with a new site and no subs.

And Mark and Gael may have said...

"Maybe it's because they realize social media isn't worth it."

... but you just shared their Youtube video and they use social media pretty actively... so it doesn't seem like they believe that statement.

 

[CCarter]

but you just shared their Youtube video and they use social media pretty actively... so it doesn't seem like they believe that statement.

I thought I was the only person seeing the irony. The Authority Hackers' most powerful content is video. Every time they are mentioned here it's a video being posted or talked about. Every single fucking time.

Everything he just said above is immediately negated by embedding and sharing the video.

You can't make this stuff up.

He's going above and beyond to simply not do social. No one is putting a gun to his head to sign up for TikTok and start dancing, but he goes on and on trying to find obscure outliers to prove his point.

It's like 9 out of 10 dentists recommend it, "well what about that one dentist? That must mean it doesn't work! I trust that 1 dentist out of the 10!!"

Jesus the leaps and bounds to avoid the hard reality of the times is astounding.

"It's extraordinary how resistant some people are to learning anything." – Charlie Munger​

There are just some people that will die on the SEO Hill. This is their last stand. Their final battle. Google's going to do one more massive update and we'll never hear from the SEO Hill again. They died on that hill.

 

[Taq]

Give me a serious challenge next time.

https://runrepeat.com/

Here you go

 

[bernard]

https://runrepeat.com/

Here you go

Did they lose a lot of traffic?

 

[Taq]

Did they lose a lot of traffic?

I would say so

 

[DunderMannen]

I would say so

Holy fuck. There's something seriously wrong punishing that site. I'd say in all honesty - pretty much all the sites I saw getting hit this time actually deserved it, but no more... not this one!

 

[JOoa0ky]

https://runrepeat.com/

Here you go

Wow

First one I clicked on: https://runrepeat.com/nike-pegasus-40

Love them cutting through the shoe with a scissor... how can anyone say no to that?

But I still think if they had a larger social presence, they'd move the needle a lot further so ccarter is still on the mark...

I think G is still and always will be favoring legit public organizations/entities. Just a presence online with very good content simply won't hack it these days... Everyone's gotta make that shift to becoming one.

 

[Smith]

https://runrepeat.com/

They actually appear to have benefited during the September updates and are relatively stable right now. The real knockdown was January and February when they had a 50% haircut.

So it sounds like the Feb '23 product review update and the Dec '22 link spam updates both hit them hard. Prior to that, it looks like they were also nailed by the Dec '21 product reviews update.

I'm not in the product review space so I don't have anything to add. But that's one hell of a drop for a site that looks well-researched and well-intended.

 

[bernard]

I thought I was the only person seeing the irony. The Authority Hackers' most powerful content is video. Every time they are mentioned here it's a video being posted or talked about. Every single fucking time.

I don't think I've ever been on their website.

I do read a lot of websites still. I read forums and high quality info content. I read scientific papers. I read well written blogs. I read about politics, culture and history on Medium.

The written word is not dead, but I think the written word as only the cheapest and easiest form of conveying information is dead. Meaning, people do not want to read bad, boring writing anymore. In that case, they'd rather watch video or listen to podcast.

There are still many people who you'd rather read than listen or watch. I know several people who write incredible, but are not good on camera. The written word has value in itself, but what we've seen in the last years is denigrating it to "Grilling in backyard is thing many people like", which is the equivalent of listening to a video with a potato used as a mic.

Love them cutting through the shoe with a scissor... how can anyone say no to that?

I don't want to get ahead of myself, because they're definitely a top tier and extremely impressive operation.

The cutting through the shoe is most a gimmick tho no? I'd rather read a proper review from someone with no financial motivation if I'm buying a shoe. In the example I linked above, I'd rather read that guy who ran in them and took pictures on his porch. I trust him more than the mass produced Runrepeat.com content. Not to say they don't deserve traffic, just that you can make arguments for or against.

 

[eliquid]

@eliquid thanks for sharing. If you're willing to share more...



This seems like a big accomplishment in a competitive space like banking. In order to do this successfully, are you only targeting long-tail terms? Or are you also winning more general terms with the site you described?

Also... does this completely debunk the concept of topical authority? I'm guessing it would be tough to cover a topic like banking with less than 50 articles...



Is this kind of rank and bank content monetized through affiliates and ads?

I do long tail, but those long tails are now pushing up more short tail terms. My long tails ARE NOT "is TD Bank open on Saturdays" though. My long tails are a lot more broader than that.

I don't think it debunks it.

I think what it proves is, each SERP is different and vanilla SEO doesn't cut it. It's the whole reason I started developing SERPWoo in 2012. To find out what it takes to rank in a niche specifically.

Was affiliate links in the past. Now I am pushing my own product.

do you do any "free social traffic" in ANY of your business that make up most of your money?

If this means: Twitter, Facebook, TikTok, Youtube and Shorts, Instagram, Pinterest and all that type.

No, I don't do it.

Does that mean it will work for you and your niche. No.

 

[CCarter]

https://runrepeat.com/

This is the site @bernard mentioned earlier.

they had a larger social presence

Yeah, ya'll need glasses. Their social media is non-existent.

- There are no links to their social media. Where did you guys see there are? I'm not joking, you guys need glasses, cause you guys are blind.

- I had to google everything

- FB last posted in 2001

- Twitter has 1 post, it's a repost, it's from 2017

- No IG

- Pretending to be a store in Denmark, but is a massive affiliate site

"Are you sure you got In-store shopping?" I doubt it.

- Site started in 2014, got on YouTube in 2017 - They do about 4 videos a month by the numbers.

- They claim to be in the United States on their YouTube About. They are most likely in Denmark. Their "store front" looks suspect.

- Their nameservers are wild:

Name Servers:
ns-1443.awsdns-52.org
ns-1629.awsdns-11.co.uk
ns-375.awsdns-46.com
ns-874.awsdns-45.net

- This is clearly a European organization. Go to the about page: https://runrepeat.com/about Those are clearly Europeans. Contact Address is in Denmark.

- They don't link to their author's social media.

- Basically they don't link externally unless it's an affiliate link. NEVER.

- They do make sure to link to studies and scientific research externally within the articles a couple of times. But other than that it's 1000% affiliate links.

- You go to their homepage the main call to action is the search, but it's deceptive. What do I mean?

When you search shoes it then shows search results but the main button goes to the affiliate site. How do you go read their reviews????

- Why would a person go to this site only to then immediately be taken to Nike.com, or eBay.com, or Amazon? Why would this doorway site need to exist?

- If I Google "Jordans", if I don't go to Nike.com or Amazon.com, why would I go to this website, which then simply takes me to those other 2? This is suppose to be a review site, how do I get to the reviews?

You have to click to images to get to the reviews - not the big ass orange button. That's purposefully deceptive.

We all know why they are doing it, they are trying to maximize every user they get for dollars.

If it's a review site, shouldn't the primary search result within their site go to the review? It's Deceptive.

They've got a massive 77 Ahrefs DR, so if they did get hit, they can easily fix this by having the main links go to the review instead of an outside affiliate link immediately.

When you are navigating the website it also looks like it's pretending to be an eCommerce website with the shoes size selection. But that selection doesn't do anything except change the filter. When you click through to the affiliate links that shoe size selection is useless.

They created a massive doorway page and took advantage of their brand's power for a long time. If they got hit it's an easy clean up on-site.

Off-site - that's a different fucking story, they got a decent YouTube presences. But that's it.

Their videos are very in-depth and is what affiliates should aspire to. Very well done. The comments from users are genuine and looks like they help the users a lot.

If they got hit I would suggest they stop all their deceptive practices above designed to confuse users to go to the affiliate sales instead of the review page.

Competition

If a user Googles "Hoka Bondi 8", a random shoe on their site (https://runrepeat.com/hoka-bondi-8), they expect the Hoka website or a shopping site. Why does this website deserve to come up? It doesn't.

Now if I Google "Hoka Bondi 8 review" then they should come up, but they don't. They're on page like 2 or 3.

#1 is Runningshoesguru.com (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/hoka-bondi-8-review/), which has a Ahrefs DR of 60.

RunningShoeGuru has links to their social media.

- They have daily facebook posts.

- They post on Twitter multiple times a week.

- They post on Instagram multiple times a week.

- They bigger YouTube presences - 20K subscribers versus RunRepeat with 6K

-- Within Their YouTube they link to their other social media accounts. RunRepeat just links to their website.

- The RunningShoeGuru folks are from the Netherlands. They seem to be fucking around with their address since it looks like it's in a Café. But RunRepeat guys claim they have "In Store Shopping".

So the first result I choose for a random shoe that RunRepeat has, has a more solid social media presences and bigger social footprint than RunRepeat.

- RunRepeat is extremely weak on social and had several deceptive practices within their website. They don't even link to their social so...

What I would suggest they do is look at RunningShoesGuru's social presences and mimic that and the style of their site. They are not an eCommerce solution - so why are they pretending to be? They are an affiliate site, so affili-aaate!

Changing the site design will have them take a hit in the affiliate sales, but that's better than taking a hit in dropping in Google 30-80% of their traffic.

Opening up both sites on Chrome (I got AD blockers on my Firefox), RunRepeat is a bit more cluttered, but RunningShoeGuru has ADs, and the bottom corner video, but it goes away.

But the RunningShoeGuru's pages are less cluttered. They got 2 affiliate options to go to for the Hoka Bondi 8 shoe, RunRepeat has 80.

--

If you go to the websites that come up for "Hoka Bondi 8 review", The Top 5 websites all have social media presence AND they link to them:

RunningShoeGuru (DR=64) (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 20K Subscribers, 212 Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 months ago - interesting, maybe on holiday),
- Instagram, recent posts 4 days ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent is yesterday, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 5 days ago, couple times a week posts

DoctorsOfRunning (DR=37) (https://www.doctorsofrunning.com/2022/09/hoka-bondi-8-review-2022.html):
- YouTube, 14K Subscribers, 530+ Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 22 hours ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 1 day ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent posts 2 days ago, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 22 hours ago, multiple times a DAY posts

SoleReview (DR=54) (https://www.solereview.com/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, NO YOUTUBE
- Instagram, recent 1 week ago, posts 1-2 posts a month
- Facebook, recent posts Sept 28th 2023, posts 1-2 posts a month
- Twitter, recent posts Sept 28th 2023, multiple times a week posts

BelieveInTheRun (DR=54) (https://believeintherun.com/shoe-reviews/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 81K Subscribers, 1.1K Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 14 hours ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 17 hours ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a week posts

WellAndGood (DR=84) (https://www.wellandgood.com/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 611K Subscribers, 1.6K Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 days ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 7 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Facebook, recent posts 9 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Twitter, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Pinterest, 349.1k followers

And then let's do comparison with RunRepeat:

RunRepeat (DR=77) (https://runrepeat.com/hoka-bondi-8):
- YouTube, 6.2K Subscribers, 245 Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 days ago,
- Instagram, NO INSTAGRAM
- Facebook, recent posts May 2021, 2+ years ago
- Twitter, recent posts April 2017, 6+ years ago


What's social media presences are you people talking about? WHERE??? When you compare to the competition RunRepeat isn't even on the map.

They only have Youtube, and the only reason they aren't the worst is because SoleReview has no Youtube. So of the 6 sites above they are in 5th place, with last place simply not in Youtube.

Facebook, Twitter, IG - they are in last place for all. Post frequency, consistency, last posted time. Everything, they are in last place.

--

Side Note: It looks like Ahrefs needs to update their DR to consider social media presences going forward, but I'm out that game now.

--

And the top 5 all look like affiliate websites whereas RunRepeat is pretending to be eCommerce and has a lot of deceptive practices within.

You know what's interesting in these reviews you guys are asking for, you guys seem to have all picked out all the website that have the least amount of social presence and asked why they are tanking.

When you compare them to their competition these website's social presences is almost non-existent.

2 so far I had to Google for their social media. What does that tell you about what they think of social?

After these in-depth reviews, ya'll still think social media is a fucking game? Then you'll die on this SEO Hill.

RunRepeat looks very good on the outside, but then when you do a deep-dive and look at their competition they pale in comparison.

Stand RunRepeat next to nothing you would think this is a great site. But stand them next to their competition and they are clearly the runt of the liter.

 

[Taq]

This is the site @bernard mentioned earlier.



Yeah, ya'll need glasses. Their social media is non-existent.

- There are no links to their social media. Where did you guys see there are? I'm not joking, you guys need glasses, cause you guys are blind.

- I had to google everything

- FB last posted in 2001

- Twitter has 1 post, it's a repost, it's from 2017

- No IG

- Pretending to be a store in Denmark, but is a massive affiliate site

"Are you sure you got In-store shopping?" I doubt it.

- Site started in 2014, got on YouTube in 2017 - They do about 4 videos a month by the numbers.

- They claim to be in the United States on their YouTube About. They are most likely in Denmark. Their "store front" looks suspect.

- Their nameservers are wild:

Name Servers:
ns-1443.awsdns-52.org
ns-1629.awsdns-11.co.uk
ns-375.awsdns-46.com
ns-874.awsdns-45.net

- This is clearly a European organization. Go to the about page: https://runrepeat.com/about Those are clearly Europeans. Contact Address is in Denmark.

- They don't link to their author's social media.

- Basically they don't link externally unless it's an affiliate link. NEVER.

- They do make sure to link to studies and scientific research externally within the articles a couple of times. But other than that it's 1000% affiliate links.

- You go to their homepage the main call to action is the search, but it's deceptive. What do I mean?

When you search shoes it then shows search results but the main button goes to the affiliate site. How do you go read their reviews????

- Why would a person go to this site only to then immediately be taken to Nike.com, or eBay.com, or Amazon? Why would this doorway site need to exist?

- If I Google "Jordans", if I don't go to Nike.com or Amazon.com, why would I go to this website, which then simply takes me to those other 2? This is suppose to be a review site, how do I get to the reviews?

You have to click to images to get to the reviews - not the big ass orange button. That's purposefully deceptive.

We all know why they are doing it, they are trying to maximize every user they get for dollars.

If it's a review site, shouldn't the primary search result within their site go to the review? It's Deceptive.

They've got a massive 77 Ahrefs DR, so if they did get hit, they can easily fix this by having the main links go to the review instead of an outside affiliate link immediately.

When you are navigating the website it also looks like it's pretending to be an eCommerce website with the shoes size selection. But that selection doesn't do anything except change the filter. When you click through to the affiliate links that shoe size selection is useless.

They created a massive doorway page and took advantage of their brand's power for a long time. If they got hit it's an easy clean up on-site.

Off-site - that's a different fucking story, they got a decent YouTube presences. But that's it.

Their videos are very in-depth and is what affiliates should aspire to. Very well done. The comments from users are genuine and looks like they help the users a lot.

If they got hit I would suggest they stop all their deceptive practices above designed to confuse users to go to the affiliate sales instead of the review page.

Competition

If a user Googles "Hoka Bondi 8", a random shoe on their site (https://runrepeat.com/hoka-bondi-8), they expect the Hoka website or a shopping site. Why does this website deserve to come up? It doesn't.

Now if I Google "Hoka Bondi 8 review" then they should come up, but they don't. They're on page like 2 or 3.

#1 is Runningshoesguru.com (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/hoka-bondi-8-review/), which has a Ahrefs DR of 60.

RunningShoeGuru has links to their social media.

- They have daily facebook posts.

- They post on Twitter multiple times a week.

- They post on Instagram multiple times a week.

- They bigger YouTube presences - 20K subscribers versus RunRepeat with 6K

-- Within Their YouTube they link to their other social media accounts. RunRepeat just links to their website.

- The RunningShoeGuru folks are from the Netherlands. They seem to be fucking around with their address since it looks like it's in a Café. But RunRepeat guys claim they have "In Store Shopping".

So the first result I choose for a random shoe that RunRepeat has, has a more solid social media presences and bigger social footprint than RunRepeat.

- RunRepeat is extremely weak on social and had several deceptive practices within their website. They don't even link to their social so...

What I would suggest they do is look at RunningShoesGuru's social presences and mimic that and the style of their site. They are not an eCommerce solution - so why are they pretending to be? They are an affiliate site, so affili-aaate!

Changing the site design will have them take a hit in the affiliate sales, but that's better than taking a hit in dropping in Google 30-80% of their traffic.

Opening up both sites on Chrome (I got AD blockers on my Firefox), RunRepeat is a bit more cluttered, but RunningShoeGuru has ADs, and the bottom corner video, but it goes away.

But the RunningShoeGuru's pages are less cluttered. They got 2 affiliate options to go to for the Hoka Bondi 8 shoe, RunRepeat has 80.

--

If you go to the websites that come up for "Hoka Bondi 8 review", The Top 5 websites all have social media presence AND they link to them:

RunningShoeGuru (DR=64) (https://www.runningshoesguru.com/reviews/road/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 20K Subscribers, 212 Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 months ago - interesting, maybe on holiday),
- Instagram, recent posts 4 days ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent is yesterday, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 5 days ago, couple times a week posts

DoctorsOfRunning (DR=37) (https://www.doctorsofrunning.com/2022/09/hoka-bondi-8-review-2022.html):
- YouTube, 14K Subscribers, 530+ Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 22 hours ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 1 day ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent posts 2 days ago, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 22 hours ago, multiple times a DAY posts

SoleReview (DR=54) (https://www.solereview.com/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, NO YOUTUBE
- Instagram, recent 1 week ago, posts 1-2 posts a month
- Facebook, recent posts Sept 28th 2023, posts 1-2 posts a month
- Twitter, recent posts Sept 28th 2023, multiple times a week posts

BelieveInTheRun (DR=54) (https://believeintherun.com/shoe-reviews/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 81K Subscribers, 1.1K Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 14 hours ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 17 hours ago, multiple times a week posts
- Facebook, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a week posts
- Twitter, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a week posts

WellAndGood (DR=84) (https://www.wellandgood.com/hoka-bondi-8-review/):
- YouTube, 611K Subscribers, 1.6K Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 days ago,
- Instagram, recent posts 7 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Facebook, recent posts 9 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Twitter, recent posts 13 hours ago, multiple times a DAY
- Pinterest, 349.1k followers

And then let's do comparison with RunRepeat:

RunRepeat (DR=77) (https://runrepeat.com/hoka-bondi-8):
- YouTube, 6.2K Subscribers, 245 Videos, Recent YouTube videos - 2 days ago,
- Instagram, NO INSTAGRAM
- Facebook, recent posts May 2021, 2+ years ago
- Twitter, recent posts April 2017, 6+ years ago


What's social media presences are you people talking about? WHERE??? When you compare to the competition RunRepeat isn't even on the map.

They only have Youtube, and the only reason they aren't the worse is because SoleReview has no Youtube. So of the 6 sites above they are in 5th place, with last place simply not in Youtube.

Facebook, Twitter, IG - they are in last place for all. Post frequency, consistency, last posted time. Everything, they are in last place.

--

Side Note: It looks like Ahrefs needs to update their DR to consider social media presences going forward, but I'm out that game now.

--

And the top 5 all look like affiliate websites whereas RunRepeat is pretending to be eCommerce and has a lot of deceptive practices within.

You know what's interesting in these reviews you guys are asking for, you guys seem to have all picked out all the website that have the least amount of social presence and asked why they are tanking.

When you compare them to their competition these website's social presences is almost non-existent.

2 so far I had to Google for their social media. What does that tell you about what they think of social?

After these in-depth reviews, ya'll still think social media is a fucking game? Then you'll die on this SEO Hill.

RunRepeat looks very good on the outside, but then when you do a deep-dive and look at their competition they pale in comparison.

Stand RunRepeat next to nothing you would think this is a great site. But stand them next to their competition and they are clearly the runt of the liter.

Appreciate the thorough breakdown, but do you think the reason they are hit so hard is mostly because of the lack of social?

I've moved into Ecom which is heavily focused on social, but while building niche sites it always seemed social was very much a waste of time, at least that's what all the gurus preached.

What do you think would be the benefit of Instagram for a niche website? You don't have anything to sell, and it's not likely you can move traffic from your IG to your site.

The only benefit I see is to come across as a legit brand.

I understand if you have an older site like the one I linked that would be useful and grow it as a legit business, but for a 1-3 year old site, I'm sure there are better ways of using them resources.

 

[CCarter]

what all the gurus preached.

The gurus just repeat what we say here 5-10 months later. I 100% guarantee you the gurus in a year from now will be telling you guys you need social.

We tell you not to listen to the gurus. We tell you to see what's going on with the search engines results pages for what's working right now.

It's why SW existed. You can see the top 100 results, see what's changed, deep dive the domains and figure out what's working in each niche.

Running Shoes needs social. A medical doctor may not. Look at the top websites ranking for your keywords and break it down like I did.

What's increased in the last 2-3 years is brand signals.

So go into your niche and look at your competitions. What are they doing that you are not?

What do you think would be the benefit of Instagram for a niche website?

The Running Shoes sites were all niche sites, they all had IG for their audience to connect to. Their audiences engaged with their posts, more people learn about their brand.

I'm sure there are better ways of using them resources.

I know what you are trying to do, you're trying to negotiate, I don't control the SERPs. I see what's working right now.

If your competitors are on social media, then you need to be there. That's that.

As you can clearly see Google is counting those brand's social media presence as part of their brand signal.

 

[bernard]

Think about this.

If you know that every piece of content you write, you're going to share that with your followers on social media, how does that impact how you make your content?

Really think about it.

I think that has more to do with why social works for niche sites than the actual presence of social media.

 

[Trump]

Appreciate the thorough breakdown, but do you think the reason they are hit so hard is mostly because of the lack of social?

I've moved into Ecom which is heavily focused on social, but while building niche sites it always seemed social was very much a waste of time, at least that's what all the gurus preached.

You didn't ask me. But I'll chip in anyway.

I've analyzed a large amount of SERPs and websites after this update. I "investigated" social media presence as well, and I found no correlation at all. Zit, zero.

In fact, when looking at my own portfolio, one could argue the exact opposite. The sites that took a hit have an active social media presence and following, while those that didn't get hit, doesn't.

I am certain that this update has no correlation with the activity on social media. That's not to say that social media doesn't affect rankings, but it's not what shook up the SERPs with these two updates, according to my research.

 

[Smith]

I am certain that this update has no correlation with the activity on social media. That's not to say that social media doesn't affect rankings, but it's not what shook up the SERPs with these two updates, according to my research.

Did your research point to any particular factors driving the shake-up with these two updates?

 

[Trump]

Did your research point to any particular factors driving the shake-up with these two updates?

Nope, I still haven't found anything of substance. It was much easier and more obvious a few years ago when updates came.

At one point, I thought I was on to something. I have a site that's been dominating its niche for 5 years. Constantly been top 1-3 for most keywords. After the update, around 20-30 keywords tanked to position +60. While 10-15 keywords gained rankings.

When looking and comparing, I found that the majority of keywords that tanked had videos in the articles. While all of those that gained rankings had no videos.

The website in my portfolio that grew the most after this update, have no videos at all in any articles.

However, I saw some websites with videos in the articles that gained rankings. So, obviously this wasn't the one and only variable to cause the bloodbath.

But maybe there is something to it. The way the videos are implemented, the use of HTML/CSS on websites, the relevance of the videos in the articles or whatever.

 

[Smith]

After the update, around 20-30 keywords tanked to position +60. While 10-15 keywords gained rankings.

Can you share the total number of keywords prior to the update? In other words, 20-30 tanked and 10-15 gained out of how many total keywords prior to the update? This would provide perspective on the kind of dip/gain you encountered. Also, are you talking SEM or Ahrefs or Search Console?

When looking and comparing

Out of curiosity, roughly how many sites did you look at in your research?

It was much easier and more obvious a few years ago when updates came.

Based on CCarter's assessments in this thread, would you point to brand signals in the sites looked at as contributing factors? Or are you blanket saying you don't think they matter in this update?

 

[chubes]

I found one site that gained in both recent updates: neonmusic.co.uk

Their website looks sexy, at least partially (minus some glaring errors). But they have no Youtube, no about page, no contact page. The links in their footer don't even work.

One thing is No In-Content Ads. They have a leaderboard on top and a sticky ad on the bottom that follows you as you scroll. Zero ads in the body of the post.

Last post on IG was July 6. Last FB post May 15th. Pinned Twitter post from 2018.

So is it the ads?

 

[CCarter]

No matter how many websites we review there are simple always going to be people that die on the SEO Hill because they refuse to get with the times.

We can review 100 domains that tanked, 90 of them has weak social presence. 10 of them will have strong social presence but dropped.

Does that mean you don't need a social presence?

There is going to be a group of people that will fight to the death that because the 10 domains that has strong social still dropped that social media is a waste of time.

Fine.

But if you look within your own niche, look at the top competitors and notice their social game is better or more aggressive than yours, then you are missing out on the broader audience.

If you go to Instagram and type in your product/service and see people talking about it, and you are not on Instagram you are not part of the conversation.

If your competition is on Twitter but you are not, you are not part of the conversation.

If your competition is on YouTube but you are not, you are not part of the conversation.

Same with Facebook, TikTok, Reddit and any platform your competitors are taking advantage of while you are on the side plan the "just SEO" game.

You'll die on this SEO Hill.

Are you a marketer, business, or brand or just a hobby blogger that's relying on just SEO?

We can continue doing these analysis all day of domains dropping, let's find one that we can all see, that's dropped and has a better social media game than their competition.

At least 1 has to exist... right?

It's like the gurus saying whatever they want to say without proof - then someone comes along and shows you time and time and time again - hey this is where Google is right now.

I really wish you wouldn't believe me. Just look at your competitors and do the same analysis I did above.

But Also - If you guys are learning about Authority Hacker's videos on YouTube and Twitter... if you learn from Diggity on YouTube and Twitter... When I want to see what Grindstones is talking about I go to his Twitter...

You guys are getting vast amounts of your SEO information from social media. You guys have to see the irony in that.

So far, all the sites we can all see being reviewed have been Swiss cheese. And the glaring problem has been a lack of social media presence which I know impacts their brand signals.

Do what you want with that information.

I found one site that gained in both recent updates: neonmusic.co.uk

Do you have a graph or chart showing they gained?

 

[eliquid]

^^ just to point out what @CCarter said above to my bank SEO websites.

No one looking at the terms I rank for banking terms in Google, is looking on Twitter or YouTube for this info. They also arent doing it with TikTok or Instagram.

Are some people seeing SOME content on bank's on those platforms. Sure!

But the mass of the majority is not.

My specific industry and customers simply are not doing that. Which is why I am also not posting there.

Follow the eyeballs.

If I was to instead post about "points and miles" and getting sign up bonuses... then yes, there are some YouTube and TikTok people to follow and then I would post to social media.

But those are not my banking terms. My specific terms in banking are geared to another aspect, and there are no real "guru's" for those posting on social media ( regularly )

You have to look at what's going on for YOUR terms.

Just because no one is doing it in mine, doesn't mean I have to shortcut and skip it too. I could go hogwild and become the expert and fill in that void. I choose not to, because I can choose that option.

Some of you don't have that luxury.

Some of you will miss out too.

 

[chubes]

Sorry, should have included this in my initial post. Still learning the ropes on this forum.

This is neonmusic.co.uk graph from Ahrefs:

To clarify I still agree with your points, I am just trying to wrap my head around some concrete things that Google likes and dislikes.

I see a site that has these glaring issues, but gains traffic during this time period, while also not implementing many of the things theorized to be important.

Many of the examples are cut and dry and obvious, but it remains to be seen whether fixing these issues of not having social accounts, becoming a brand, etc, would actually help the traffic of a site that has been affected.

Or, will you be posting on Youtube, social media, building a brand that nobody cares about until you're blue in the face and still have nothing to show for it?

It takes a long time to build a big, engaged following on social media. A long time, or a lot of money. I've been at it for years and I still get much more engagement from Google than I could possibly hope for from social.

 

[eliquid]

Sorry, should have included this in my initial post. Still learning the ropes on this forum.

This is neonmusic.co.uk graph from Ahrefs:

To clarify I still agree with your points, I am just trying to wrap my head around some concrete things that Google likes and dislikes.

I see a site that has these glaring issues, but gains traffic during this time period, while also not implementing many of the things theorized to be important.

Many of the examples are cut and dry and obvious, but it remains to be seen whether fixing these issues of not having social accounts, becoming a brand, etc, would actually help the traffic of a site that has been affected.

Or, will you be posting on Youtube, social media, building a brand that nobody cares about until you're blue in the face and still have nothing to show for it?

It takes a long time to build a big, engaged following on social media. A long time, or a lot of money. I've been at it for years and I still get much more engagement from Google than I could possibly hope for from social.

it's not always about helping get a boost to a site.

it's about preventing a push from the front page, to the last page... possibly in the future.

Consider it the same as "insurance"

 

[bernard]

I personally think this update has much to do with links.

Particular types of links, most likely machine learning trying to gather which type of links on which pages are EEAT indicators.

If Google has become better at sniffing out the difference between an editorial newspaper links and a paid one, then watch as they drop.

That's the point with social media, it might be the cause or it could be the correlation.

Meaning, if you take your content seriously enough to promote it on social media, chances are you are running a site that is editor friendly, meaning, people would feel more safe linking to you.

And ... a journalist, editor or ecommerce owner, might find your content through social media, then when they're writing something and need a quote or source and they see your site, then they remember it from their own social media.

I really don't think you should underestimate these things. Just one pleasant interaction with a blog or person and you're not longer stranger danger, but someone you'd want to help.