This is the keto thread

[turbin3]

Since you've read quite a bit on this topic @turbin3 , I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on this article:

http://dietrebel.com/what-is-ketosis/

That's a pretty solid article, and covers most bases of most of the common or controversial topics with Ketosis.

They also hit on an important subject in the final thoughts. Namely, potential for nutritional deficiencies. It's true of just about any diet. People often take a rather indiscriminate approach when getting on a diet, and it seems lots of people always end up going to one extreme or another. For example, with vegan/vegetarian diets, although many people can potentially lead relatively healthy lives, extra care needs to be taken with supplementation for certain nutrient deficiencies (vitamin B12), and significant effort needs to be taken in supplementing protein with a full spectrum of aminos.

On the flip side, with ketosis, general low carb diets, and especially paleo, people take it to the opposite extreme. I've heard of some people's macros up around as much as 230-250g of FAT (yeah, just dietary fat) per day, and a minimal amount of protein. I have one question to prove why that's a bad idea. If your body is moving into ketosis, and it is focused on converting fat to ketones for energy.....do you think it will first utilize stored fat or dietary fat? If it's someone looking to lose a bunch of weight, yeah, eating crazy amounts of dietary fat is counterproductive, as their body will be primarily utilizing dietary fat as opposed to stored fat. If it's someone that's already lean and already has great lean muscle mass, then higher dietary fat might actually be a good thing. So in that case, if I was person #1, trying to lose a bunch, I might start out on the lower end of the spectrum (lets say 60-80g fat roughly). Over time, as I've lost significant weight and begun to gain a good amount of lean mass, then I would probably increase fat.

Also, on the subject of greens and fruit, people can still have those things while on ketosis. Again, people go to extremes. I'd just keep it in moderation. A 1/2 cup of raspberries. A cup of spinach, broccoli, or some other greens, etc. Actually, if people don't take care to include a bit of greens and fruit, they'll have yet another problem....not enough dietary fiber. Ideally, the general rule of thumb is 10g of fiber per 100lbs of bodyweight.

Kegenix? I wouldn't waste your time or money James. Looking at the ingredient list, it's basically just a multivitamin, 7g of MCT oil, and no more than ~4g BCAA's......for $197/mth. That's like $30/mth worth of supplements, with an insane markup. OR, instead you could do 1 scoop of protein powder, 1/2tbsp of MCT oil, and just eat some fruit. Honestly, a supplement like that is totally unnecessary.

 

[tomah]

Thanks @turbin3

I'm glad to hear that my wife knows what she's talking about

 

[Andrewkar]

On the flip side, with ketosis, general low carb diets, and especially paleo, people take it to the opposite extreme. I've heard of some people's macros up around as much as 230-250g of FAT (yeah, just dietary fat) per day, and a minimal amount of protein. I have one question to prove why that's a bad idea. If your body is moving into ketosis, and it is focused on converting fat to ketones for energy.....do you think it will first utilize stored fat or dietary fat? If it's someone looking to lose a bunch of weight, yeah, eating crazy amounts of dietary fat is counterproductive, as their body will be primarily utilizing dietary fat as opposed to stored fat. If it's someone that's already lean and already has great lean muscle mass, then higher dietary fat might actually be a good thing. So in that case, if I was person #1, trying to lose a bunch, I might start out on the lower end of the spectrum (lets say 60-80g fat roughly). Over time, as I've lost significant weight and begun to gain a good amount of lean mass, then I would probably increase fat.

Pretty good explanation, just one thing for thought however. Once the person #1 will decide to go into ketosis, assuming that person wants to lose a bunch of fat (not just weight actually), and will cut proteins, carbs and also dietary fat so she is in a caloric deficit, in first weeks or even months she risks to lose too much muscles as well (in some case even bone density, and connective tissues). The reason is that her body is not adjusted well to working on ketones/fat (be it dietary or from food), her body have more or less properly working carbohydrate burning biochemical pathways, but not beta-oxidation. The outcome is body converting muscle mass to carbohydrates, most often than not. It seems that caloric intake is an important factor here because more dietary fat (especially saturated) = more calories, in that event body recognises caloric surplus and is developing fat burning pathways much faster, thus spearing priceless muscles mass.

Pure keto diet is not the best start for someone who is just starting, health wise. Jumping from a high carb and often high polyunsaturated fat diet into strict keto is a bit desperate move (unless someone wants to lose weight at all costs, and fast).

Probably much healthier approach is to initially cut down on carbohydrates to let's say 120 grams a day, and eating fatty cuts of meat ad libitum (no extra fat added). Smaller shock to the body biochemistry (less likely carcinogenic effect) , easier day to day life, especially in first period of dieting. Also at this point may happen that weight will go up (women don't get it...), but adipose tissue will drop as well. That's preferable outcome.

Once two, three months into the new way of eating she can then try and play with calories, and fat intake. Also, if after this period there is no weight lose, it's a perfect time to start manipulation of carbs and protein intake.

 

[Potatoe]

Down about 40lbs in the last 6 months. Relatively loosey goosey keto, not really counting calories or worrying about macros too intensely, just making sure I don't eat more then 20-30g carbs, making sure I eat plenty of vegetables, and trying not to go too crazy on sweeteners. I plan to dial it in better moving forward and exercise more, but it was surprisingly easy to get that first big chunk out of the way.